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Yup, Narcotics Anonymous.
Elephant elephant elephant, sunshine sunshine sunshine
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That is what the anonymous part is supposed to be for. You are quite welcome to use any name you wish, so Griff's Joe need not really be called Joe, and he is supposed to have some confidence that others in the group don't run around outside of meetings telling everyone they know Joe from the AA/NA.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
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That's an abysmal pseudonym. Quite fishy if you ask me.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
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OriginalGriff wrote: Hi, my name's Joe and I'm an alcoholic
But your name isn't "Joe".
And if you've lied about that, I'm not 100% sure that you're an alcoholic, either. 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Imagine the problem for mythomaniacs anonyms 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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I had a friend who was both mythomaniac and alcoholic. Just imagine.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
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Probably not. Between them I think Nagy and DD have drank everything on the island. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Because it's based on the same principles as Internet privacy.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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The alcohol stays anonymous. You don't say "Hi, my name's Joe and I'm addicted to Scotch Malt Whisky".
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Is the equivalent support group for people who just cannot stop talking called:
On and On Anon
A positive attitude may not solve every problem, but it will annoy enough people to be worth the effort.
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"Hello, my name is Joe, and that reminds me of when I was two, and my family................................"
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I'm wondering about the cheapest way to get into developing on the Mac platform -- focusing on creating AppStore applications.
I saw this item at Amazon
Apple Mac Mini MGEM2LL/A Desktop (NEWEST VERSION)[^]
I'm wondering how I can know if:
1. it comes with the most current version of the Mac OS (EDIT -- product detail mention Mac Yosemite)
1a. is the Mac OS free? not sure
2. Is it powerful enough to create basic AppStore applications and debug them?
3. Can I just buy any Intel based system and install Mac OS on it? (doubt it, but curious)
4. If I bought this, is it easy enough to remote desktop over to it? Maybe not RDP, but maybe I'd have to use VNC? Is it easy to do on a Mac?
Any additional information is appreciated. This is just a discussion and not a development-specific question and I hope it's okay.
thanks
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Although I don't develop for Macs anymore, what I know is:
1a: Yes, all upgrades are free (If you mean FOSS, the guts mostly are but the UI isn't).
2: Yes
3: No.
4: Not sure, but I think so. The Finder (UI layer) is proprietary, the guts are essentially BSD. XCode, the development environment that's equivalent to VS, is extremely powerful and free. You download it directly from Apple.
According to my calculations, I should be able to retire about 5 years after I die.
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I have a mac notebook from years ago. But the O/S upgrades were really cheap like 20 bucks or something. They may be free now, I haven't looked in a while.
The licensing agreement keeps you from installing it on any other hardware other than apple hardware. You will wind up upgrading your hardware every few years, 5 maybe. I can't upgrade mine past snow leopard. Told ya it is old. Which means that I can't make iPhone/iPad apps past ios version 4.
Mine still works great and I use it for surfing and email mostly.
Microsoft has a very good RDP client for use when on the mac and heading to windows. I use teamviewer to remotely work on mine. I never had much luck with vnc, always seem slow and buggy to me. Probably just me though.
I also use Synergy to connect my window 8 laptop keyboard and mouse to the mac when I am at home. It works pretty well.
Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than master of one.
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Thanks for taking time to provide the information. Great info to get an idea of what to expect.
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Let me add an upvote for the TeamViewer Reference.
With Dual monitors on my main PC, I use TeamViewer to conenct to the mac mini.
I also installed a hardware monitor/kbd switch (and I have needed it a few times,
so it was worth installing). Decent little speakers (because no sound just seems wrong).
And I sent an email to Steve Ballmer, because after being a MSFT Windows users since the earliest days, Windows 8 on my wifes computer forced me to look at Macs!!! Her next computer will be a Mac.
And it is pretty straight forward after that. I am afraid to admit that I kinda like it! 
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Great stuff thanks.
This morning I booted an old, old laptop using Puppy Linux from a USB flash drive.
It had everything I needed to do some work and only took 1 minute to get to the desktop and start working.
As a matter fact, I'm thinking Puppy Linux probably beats ChromeOS. Can't think of anything I would get from ChromeOS that would be better than Puppy.
Why do I say that?
I can definitely imagine switching to Mac, except I am a LONG-TIME Windows developer.
But, as the Web Ascends and as MS OSes die, that won't matter will it?
Great discussion and thanks for posting.
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Great answers. Very helpful and I appreciate your time.
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I currently use a Mac Mini (core i7) for iOS development (bought it 12 months ago, so yours may be a later model).
Works great, I am developing a pretty serious app on it. XCode is free, as good as VS (almost). It only recompiles modules you actually change, so my app with dozens of modules typically recompiles, builds, and transfers to the emulator in a couple of seconds. Your only additional costs will be a keyboard, mouse, monitor and a $100 per year iOS developer license.
If you have never used a Mac before (I hadn't), you will be impressed. Figured I needed to do backups. Rather than buy a $100 Mac portable drive, a guy in my local electronics shop said I could buy a normal (Windows formatted) portable hard disk and the Mac would automatically reformat it. Plugged it in, Mac asked me if I wanted to reformat (yes), then asked me if I would like to use it as a backup disk (yes)and it put in place a periodic full and incremental backup service. I knew (know) nothing about Macs, plugged in the wrong kind of drive, and literally two clicks later it was a functioning automated backup. After a year of iOS development I still know nothing about Macs, you don't need to know anything about them to use them.
I couldn't set up an RDC from Windows into the Mac, but MS provide an excellent and free RDP client for the Mac OS (OSX?) and I RDP from Mac into my PC - this better suits how I work, as I spend most of my time in Xcode but want to periodically check my email or change songs.
The only apps I have installed are XCode, the MS RDP client, and Chrome.
I spent years treating Macs as toys, and beneath the dignity of real developers. Its a great environment, and the mini is a great machine. Highly recommended.
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Great information. Thanks so much for taking the time to post.
I am going to save up for the Mac Mini -- or equivalent -- shown in my post.
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I would suggest getting the previous generation Mac mini from eBay or Craigslist. The newest models have soldered memory (and possibly SSD as well), upgrading later will be extremely difficult, if not impossible for most. Upgrading at purchase sucks your wallet dry (Apple's memory prices are re-DONK-ulous...)
If you go the hackintosh route, two things:
1) make sure your hardware is compatible. A lot of hardware will work, usually depends on driver support. Hackintosh can become a time consuming endeavor if you don't have hardware that just works. Example: ATI Radeon HD 7xxx video cards. OS X won't boot at all unless you utilize the EFI partition (your disk must be GUID to run OS X). Then, it may boot but the particular model may not be supported (e.g. 7750 and 7790 are okay with some kext tweaks, 7730 NOT okay. Don't ask how I know this...) Sometimes ridiculously old cards have more support than newer cards, like an nVidia 8500GT based card.
2) Making bootable media for installation is by far easiest from a mac. Probably possible from a PC, but could also become time consuming and frustrating.
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I don't really want to go the Hackintosh route, but may be forced to due to insufficient funds.
I know in most cases that type of thing takes so much time then in the end what you are left with is something that doesn't run well and ends up eating up even more time.
Thanks for the info.
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If you do enough research you should be okay. Check out tonymacx86.com, lots of good info there including installation guides, hardware guides, forums, etc.
Good luck!
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newton.saber wrote: Can I just buy any Intel based system and install Mac OS on it?
Hackintosh[^]
/ravi
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