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Pom Pey wrote: not had a root for a very long time
Not even a pseudo root?
(I'm always willing to trial run new euphemisms)
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Pom Pey wrote: I'm not a pretentious twat.
So what kinda twat are you then? 
Jeremy Falcon
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Susan Boyle had that party first!
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I'm an optoholic - my glass is always half full of vodka.
=========================================================
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Ok here is the old thread to explain the situation I was in - Proprietary CMS[^]
As per your suggestions, I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay. Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet. They will let me know soon but I want to now be prepared with my decision.
I am about to finish MBA and Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually. If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced. If I move on then I will be back to solid programming role and not sure how easy it will be to move on to managerial role after 1 year.
What do you guys suggest now. (Also note that I have been with the company for over 5 years now.)
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What do you want to do in your life? I would stay in solid programming, if the conditions are similar. The choice is yours: if you get both a desired advancement in career and a pay raise then you should stay in your current place.
Of course if they offer you peanuts with respect to the other company...
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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cp-andy wrote: I decided to move on and finally have an offer as Sr Software Engineer with 35% hike in pay.
cp-andy wrote: Tech project manager is the sort of role I would like to move on to eventually.
Option 1) You get the money and hope you get the chance to change the role in the future
Option 2) You get the role and hope you get the chance to hike the money in the future
cp-andy wrote: If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced.
That can be a PITA, been there and went back to tech job
But... at the end of the day... is your decision, so pay attention to what your stomach/guts have to say (you are the one with the biggest information about your current employer, if you like to work there or not)
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Out of principle I don't take counter offers.
If they didn't realise your value until you gave your notice...
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: Out of principle I don't take counter offers
This is solid advice.
Most people and companies find that within 1 year of accepting counter offer, both parties are more than done with the situation.
There are a lot of stats about negatives of accepting counter offers.
Of course, each situation is unique.
Here's an article about why it is not good to accept them:
Why You Should Never Accept A Counter-offer (Forbes mag)[^]
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Great article, says exactly what I was to lazy to write myself. 
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And they'll start looking for your replacement anyway since you've shown that you're disloyal.
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Yep. One company I left wouldn't give me a counter offer, saying in so many words it would be like paying blackmail, pay once and it may be demanded again and again.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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I accepted a counter-offer once, brought me up to the salary I was moving to (large increase). Six months later I left anyway for a third company, as the money didn't fix the problems I had with the original company -- if anything they got worse. I went through a lot of unnecessary stress before cutting my losses and leaving.
Make a list of pros and cons for staying and leaving. Look at the list critically, leave emotion at the door (if you can). Once you've mentally processed everything, take a few days (or more) to reflect on things. Listen to your "gut", as others have recommended. IMO our "gut" is our subconscious talking to us -- it knows more than we consciously do. I collect facts and let my subconscious ruminate.
One final thought: Make sure that going to a less technical role is what you want. I moved out of technical work into project management and business analysis. Today I'm back playing with my Tinker Toys (programmer/analyst and team lead) and I'm a lot happier. 
Side thought -- is "gut feeling" American slang, or is it more general across English speaking countries?
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Why were you looking to leave your current company in the first place? Were you not happy? Did you not enjoy the work or the people? Will these issues have all been resolved if you accept the counter-offer?
In my experience,once someone has set their mind to leaving, it's because they have already given it a lot of thought and the decision has been made in their own minds. I was counter-offered at a previous job. When I was handing in my notice my manager immediately counter-offered. My mind was made up and I was adamant I was leaving.
I also remember another colleague of mine who accepted a job offer, handed in his notice, got counter-offered, accepted the counter-offer but left less than 12 months later as all the promises he was given never materialised.
At tend of the day, it's your decision, and only you can know what to do for the best
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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Dominic Burford wrote: all the promises he was given never materialised
Never take a promise as a counter-offer, promises are worthless. Either the employer signs a binding contract or the counter-offer is functionally non existent.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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den2k88 wrote: Never take a promise as a counter-offer, promises are worthless.
I think he's learnt that lesson now
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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This is always a hard decision. I once made the right call and once f*cked-up beyond the dreams of even the most incapable Western Government; but that's another story.
My criteria on the counter offer are based on when did you last get a review in your current job. Not taking this into account is what screwed me. If they recently reviewed your job and your salary and/or role remained pretty much the same, why are they doing it now? If it's a case of you'll do the same job with a posher title and more money, is it worth staying? I personally take the opinion that in this scenario, if the recently ailed to promote you or give you a pay rise what is to say they will continue to incentivise you after you agree t stay. You can make this call once with any company.
Is the new job within your comfort zone? How much risk s there in moving? For the same or similar money, I think it is wise to stay with the devil you know rather than the devil you don't. Unless the devil happens to be the kind of person who even Satan questions on their morality.
Hope this helps.
veni bibi saltavi
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The current company is good but the problem is that they have outsourced lot of the development work already. All the apps were already outsourced, but now they have moved all the sites to proprietary CMS due to which few of the colleagues already left. Note that they did not listen to advice of tech dir who got really annoyed and left the company. It was the same reason, I decided to leave but now they are assuring there will be more dev work etc etc.
Nagy Vilmos wrote: Is the new job within your comfort zone? How much risk s there in moving?
Well there is always a risk in new job. They are extremely slow in taking decision and offered a role with three months trial. They use trial word over probation which sounded bit negative to start with. Work wise their IT is internal and they have some good projects to count on. But it will be totally programming job whereas if I stay, it will be both managerial and programming which somewhat aligns with my ultimate goal that is to move to management.
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The counter offer is made for two reasons...
1 - to stop a competitor getting your know how.
2 - to give your current employer a chance to "download" your know how before you leave.
Don't fall for it.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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One would hope your reasons for leaving were not purely financial. If they are then take the highest offer, if not, then you're leaving because you want to leave and the counter offer should be irrelevant.
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As mentioned in other comments, it's my understanding that accepting counter-offers almost always ends bad. Why? Because now the company knows you want to leave so it can create a bad relationship.
What I have done before is tell my manager that I like working for him and that I don't want to leave but that recruiters have been telling me about jobs paying much more and I have researched and the market is paying more and that I should get a pay raise. Even with an offer from another company you could take this approach just to get a feel for where they are.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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"A change is as good as a rest", as my old Grannie used to say.
I think I'll start writing a Grannie column...
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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cp-andy wrote: Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet.
cp-andy wrote: What do you guys suggest now.
Have to ask yourself what caused you to look elsewhere and have those conditions changed? I have only once accepted a counter offer once and it was because I didn't want to leave the company to begin with.
In that situation I just wanted something that allowed me to move out of state and be closer to my parents as they get older. I never suspected that my current employer would be able to offer that until I gave them my reasons for wanting to leave.
If you are searching for quality of work and pay then I would recommend against taking the counter offer. In all my years of watching those happen I have never seen one last that long.
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I in general don't take a counter offer unless its a written contract etc.
Counter offer means, the company already knew that you had once decided to move on and when the situation becomes too fluid, they wont think twice to outsource your work.
But moving on to new company guarantees pay hike but uncertain environment.
Think on both offer, sleep on it and then act.
cheers,
Super
------------------------------------------
Too much of good is bad,mix some evil in it
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Indeed - why did it take you wanting to leave for them to make that offer? Would they have made it otherwise? Move on.
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It cost's them nothing to throw a title at you (perhaps they saw/heard about your wishlist), but is the tital true or the same {more] work with a new hat. You've intended you want to leave, with that in their minds will they allow you any real decision making power (i.e. the CMS)?
Their thoughts will be: 'What if he changes everything and leaves anyway?'
Typical response: 'he may recommend, but not make decisions without our approval.', which translates to 'good idea, we will consider that in our next senior meeting.' (i.e. 'no.')
Sin tack
the any key okay
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