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den2k88 wrote: Never take a promise as a counter-offer, promises are worthless.
I think he's learnt that lesson now 
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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This is always a hard decision. I once made the right call and once f*cked-up beyond the dreams of even the most incapable Western Government; but that's another story.
My criteria on the counter offer are based on when did you last get a review in your current job. Not taking this into account is what screwed me. If they recently reviewed your job and your salary and/or role remained pretty much the same, why are they doing it now? If it's a case of you'll do the same job with a posher title and more money, is it worth staying? I personally take the opinion that in this scenario, if the recently ailed to promote you or give you a pay rise what is to say they will continue to incentivise you after you agree t stay. You can make this call once with any company.
Is the new job within your comfort zone? How much risk s there in moving? For the same or similar money, I think it is wise to stay with the devil you know rather than the devil you don't. Unless the devil happens to be the kind of person who even Satan questions on their morality.
Hope this helps.
veni bibi saltavi
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The current company is good but the problem is that they have outsourced lot of the development work already. All the apps were already outsourced, but now they have moved all the sites to proprietary CMS due to which few of the colleagues already left. Note that they did not listen to advice of tech dir who got really annoyed and left the company. It was the same reason, I decided to leave but now they are assuring there will be more dev work etc etc.
Nagy Vilmos wrote: Is the new job within your comfort zone? How much risk s there in moving?
Well there is always a risk in new job. They are extremely slow in taking decision and offered a role with three months trial. They use trial word over probation which sounded bit negative to start with. Work wise their IT is internal and they have some good projects to count on. But it will be totally programming job whereas if I stay, it will be both managerial and programming which somewhat aligns with my ultimate goal that is to move to management.
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The counter offer is made for two reasons...
1 - to stop a competitor getting your know how.
2 - to give your current employer a chance to "download" your know how before you leave.
Don't fall for it.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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One would hope your reasons for leaving were not purely financial. If they are then take the highest offer, if not, then you're leaving because you want to leave and the counter offer should be irrelevant.
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As mentioned in other comments, it's my understanding that accepting counter-offers almost always ends bad. Why? Because now the company knows you want to leave so it can create a bad relationship.
What I have done before is tell my manager that I like working for him and that I don't want to leave but that recruiters have been telling me about jobs paying much more and I have researched and the market is paying more and that I should get a pay raise. Even with an offer from another company you could take this approach just to get a feel for where they are.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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"A change is as good as a rest", as my old Grannie used to say.
I think I'll start writing a Grannie column...
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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cp-andy wrote: Now I broke the news to my Manager in current company recently and they are giving me a counter offer with Tech Manager role. I don't know about the package yet.
cp-andy wrote: What do you guys suggest now.
Have to ask yourself what caused you to look elsewhere and have those conditions changed? I have only once accepted a counter offer once and it was because I didn't want to leave the company to begin with.
In that situation I just wanted something that allowed me to move out of state and be closer to my parents as they get older. I never suspected that my current employer would be able to offer that until I gave them my reasons for wanting to leave.
If you are searching for quality of work and pay then I would recommend against taking the counter offer. In all my years of watching those happen I have never seen one last that long.
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I in general don't take a counter offer unless its a written contract etc.
Counter offer means, the company already knew that you had once decided to move on and when the situation becomes too fluid, they wont think twice to outsource your work.
But moving on to new company guarantees pay hike but uncertain environment.
Think on both offer, sleep on it and then act.
cheers,
Super
------------------------------------------
Too much of good is bad,mix some evil in it
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Indeed - why did it take you wanting to leave for them to make that offer? Would they have made it otherwise? Move on.
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It cost's them nothing to throw a title at you (perhaps they saw/heard about your wishlist), but is the tital true or the same {more] work with a new hat. You've intended you want to leave, with that in their minds will they allow you any real decision making power (i.e. the CMS)?
Their thoughts will be: 'What if he changes everything and leaves anyway?'
Typical response: 'he may recommend, but not make decisions without our approval.', which translates to 'good idea, we will consider that in our next senior meeting.' (i.e. 'no.')
Sin tack
the any key okay
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Something to consider...
I've seen companies counter an offer because they were caught off guard by the guy's 2 week notice, then, when they find a suitable replacement, they found a reason to terminate him.
Giving notice says to your employer "I'm not happy here so I'm leaving". If you take their counter and stay, they might then be thinking "What happens when he's no happy again, or some better offer comes around again". You're a liability now.
When you give notice, don't look back.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind.
Ya can't fix stupid.
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A counter-offer is only so they can keep you around until they find a replacement.
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Another option is to take the new job and counter the counter offer with being a "consultant" to help maintain the projects you worked on and eventually train someone to take over.
My brother tried this and ended up collecting two paychecks for almost two years.
Brent
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As a general principle any company that is practicing the black voodoo of outsourcing shall be left for whatever is still there.
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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cp-andy wrote: If I stay with this company, lot of the current major software work is outsourced.
I'm not really sure what you'll be managing, then. Seems to me the outsourcers are going to have people to manage whatever projects your company throws at them.
That sounds like a significant chance of a dead-end path. Lump of salt, though, I can't think of many positions I'd want less than some sort of management thing.
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My experience is that it is hard to make the jump out of high paying development into management. Management will have a higher upside salary, but it is managing PEOPLE. Some folks are good at this. Some actually like it, but it is significantly different from a dev role. If this is your personality, the counter sounds like a good move.
Know your personality and know what you love to do.
I still miss full time dev, but as an entrepreneur running a company, I had to make the jump to 90% management.
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Move on to the new job. Trust me.
Everyones advice is right on about that.
There was ONE time where it kinda bit me. They asked me to stay, only promised exciting things, and reminded me I would lose my stock options.
I left, for a similar raise. And 6 months later (they were in talks when I left), the product I had just created for them, was packaged and sold for $5 million as a division. BTW, that group is now being sold for 45 Million. And has been profitable all the way.
That was probably the best case scenario. But honestly, I did the math. My stock options would have netted me only $120,000 before taxes. So, WOW.
But think about that. I was making more per year, every year...
When I look back, I am still good with leaving. Because I was TIRED of working on THAT technology, within that framework.
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I was just watching Frozen Planet, and you remind me of like this person that is stuck on this ship in the middle of the Antartic Ocean in the middle of a storm in the middle the winter, wondering whether you should stick it out with the Captain or just smile and say Adios! Sr Software Engineer with 35% pay hike gets my thumbs up.
Keep telling your story to others, and maybe it'll become advice you can share.
Remain Calm & Continue To Google
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Don't EVER accept a counter-offer once you have stated you intentions to leave. The company is going to give you what you want until they find your replacement and then you will be canned. I've seen this scenario happen to people time and time again. Do NOT do it!
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Am I too late? I wouldn't take the counter-offer. You decided to leave that company for a good reason and always best to leave on your own terms.
You can't worry about whether a route to management would be better in one job or another. As far as I can tell its never a simple progression from A to B to C. Luck and personality have a lot to do with whether you wind up in management or not. Unless or until it actually happens for you, just focus on being the best developer you can be. By all means prepare for being a manager - business studies & management courses perhaps. If you're honest are you really talking about being your own boss and/or earning more money? If so then there are probably better routes into management.
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Who would have thought that there were any home computers at all in 1969? At a bargain price just above 10000 $. I found this one[^] in a computer museum, and behold what it was intended to be used for!
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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There's no "Buy Now" button 
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Thereb was in 1969, but apparently nobody used it.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Nice find.
CDP1802 wrote: behold what it was intended to be used for
An extravagant gift according to Honeywell 316 - Wikipedia[^].
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