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Actually, that's how I meant it! I didn't rad your original answer closely enough!
You're on tomorrow, btw...
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Anything outside Microsoft has been a bitter pill for me. I'd blame it on the MS-centric career 'brought up' I've had. Right from VB/VC to .net / Azure. Most of them are like piece of cake. Visual Studio is the major spoiler. I'll be able to work on given requirement, IF the dev environment is set up with Visual studio & the Microsoft stack.
There were times, if I was asked to code without Visual studio, I'd rather chose to quit and find some other job.
Now I'm gradually getting to explore things outside MS, and I have to tell you, it's such a BIG pain. My brain is struggling to get over the habitual MS stuff.
These bitter pills, it's not just about "Swallowing"in a shot. These are pills that I've to CHEW everyday. Some of them are in Php/Linux without intellisense, Even a code review is painful. 
I should've at least practised php stuff with it's bare bones dev environments, in my younger days to be well set for my later part of the career.
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy Falcon.
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So I guess you never user an AngularJS, NodeJS or related packages then?
Working with Angular is writing in notepad and then running in the browser, getting an error, fixing the error, running in the browser again and so on....
Requires patience.
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Even there MS has spoiled us now with tools like Visual Studio Code 
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Even though I used the term in my own post, don't you find it odd we use the term "spoiled" which has so many negative connotations? Productivity is the driving force of our industry yet we refer to advances in productivity as being "spoiled" implying that less productivity is superior
modified 7-Nov-17 2:41am.
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Are you from the Winzigweich propaganda department?
And how productive are you without all that stuff? If you can't get anything done without your tools and assistants, that would be a good definition of spoiled. Then, the productivity gain by using these tools is also questionable. It could be that there actually are not quite as helpless and feel they are being hindered and annoyed by these tools. That does not sound like breathtakingly high productivity.
I have ditched Visual Studio years ago and now use Sharp Develop, not despite it being simpler, but because of it. And I do get things done.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
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Being able to do something and being able to do it easier are different things. I'm not saying other tools are inherently worse simply by being different. I just find it odd that productivity improvements are viewed negatively by so many. "Real programmers use notepad and a manual" and all that nerd bravado
Obligatory xkcd.[^]
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I have nothing against useful tools or getting brainless code generated instead of writing mile long source files. I use web services to separate the application logic from the UI. A lot. A web referece and autogenerated proxy to call the webmethods sure beat spending a few hours to write that thing. But I know how it works and could write it manually when the generated code does not work. Don't tell me that does not happen. There are some bugs which still appear since I started using webservices in .Net 1.0.
Even worse, I also know enough people who could not do some very basic things like implementing a custom event and a delegate. The same goes for the simple task of writing a simple event handler and wiring it up to an event. I would not like being helpless just because some editor does not do it with a simple double click in the right place or because the editor has decided that this is not the way how we do things. Don't tell me that does not happen. All I want to do is to edit some XAML. I don't expect the form designer to work, simply because the UI has nothing to do with WPF. You would not believe how much work it was to tweak my classes so that the designer lets me edit my XAML and otherwise staying out of my way. And I don't like it at all when tools obviously think they know better what we are doing and where we want to go.
It's not really productive when tools encourage ignorance or lazyness and it's not helpful when tools limit what I am allowed to do. I think it's more productive to work on a task instead of finding workarounds to make peace with some dumb tool. A little less may often actually be more.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
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I didn't mean that people shouldn't learn how to do things manually. I write WCF client proxies manually because I dislike reliance on an active service reference to auto-generate the proxy. That active reference might not always be available. Everyone should learn the fundamentals of the technology they use in case they are in a position where it's appropriate. I was more talking about the people that look down on or subtly demean those that take advantage of convenience tools because that isn't "real" programming. I just don't get that mindset.
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Quote: What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Considering how much people like to crap all over MS, it's amusing how convenient they make things, right? I used an IDE called DevC++ for the longest time because of a similar mindset. When I was forced to switch to VS I never looked back. It's just better. I guess I've been spoiled by convenience now too 
(Also it sounds weird in English to combine contractions like "I've" with prepositions like "to" in my opinion. I only mention it because when I was learning Japanese it was incredibly helpful to be corrected on the "technically correct but sounds weird" points.)
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Jon McKee wrote: "I've" with prepositions like "to" in my opinion
I've been using it, just because nobody else pointed it out to me. Thanks for the tip! 
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy Falcon.
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Vunic wrote: Php/Linux without intellisense
It seems you picked the wrong tool... Even before Visual Studio Code came to the neighborhood there were IDEs to support that...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Nah, it is a breeze. Just adapt. I went from using VS as an editor to linux and used Gedit. Instead of code browsing in VS I used Ctags
It is more fiddly, and less productive, but that is the world of linux!
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In a nutshell, Linux is like buying a box of legos and having to put crap together. MS tries to put together the legos for you. Different people prefer different stuff.
Jeremy Falcon
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I prefer working on WIndows though. Linux is like working in the 19th century. 
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Vunic wrote: These are pills that I've to CHEW everyday. Some of them are in Php/Linux without intellisense, Even a code review is painful.
While I feel your pain, you may wish to try an IDE besides vim. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Well - catholic priests went without women - and we know how that turned out.
So - as long as you choose correctly, spit-or-swallow as they say, you will cum to realize that although late in life, it's all for the better.
Until the bitter end.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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With apologies to R. Giskard Reventlov,
APOD: 2017 November 6 - A Dust Jet from the Surface of Comet 67P[^] I saw this and was awestruck, the sheer amount of engineering required to take a close-up photo of an actual jet from a comet, damn that's cool. 
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
modified 6-Nov-17 15:08pm.
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This is the first time I have seen an up-close picture of a comet. I did not know that some were large enough with enough gravity gravity to have boulders and sand (or what appears to be) on their surface. Wow.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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jeron1 wrote: With apologies to R. Giskard Reventlov,
Appreciated but not required - I only post deep space images.
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I took a job with a company with what at the time they called a "Lucrative compensation package". This "package" included $14k in restricted stock and a 10% bonus. At the time the stock was 12.50 a share and rising, and they expected to pay the full bonus. A 10% bonus would have been more than $15K.
Here it is a year later and the stock has tanked and is now at 3% and falling, and employees are now only getting a fraction of their bonus. The company's last quarter revenue isn't what they projected due poor sales. They expect employees to get 60% of their bonus, so that would be about 6%.
While I know you can't predict the future, they made the offer in good faith and I accepted with the understanding that the stock had real value and that I would get a 10% bonus. I took a cut in pay coming here because the "package" seemed to have value, and the company does have very good benefits.
For the last 10-15 years I've been a contractor. I haven't been a FT employee and therefore haven't had stock options and bonuses, so this is all new to me. I've been here a year now and I like the job and the people I work with.
My compensation is now 15-20% less than what I signed on for, or about 25K less. Should I stay and hope it turns around or leave now before it gets worse?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind.
Ya can't fix stupid.
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You took a risk. It didn't pay off. Such is life.
If you think the company will turn around stay. If not, leave.
The difference between being a contractor and a permie is that a contractor knows when the job will end, a permie is always hoping it won't.
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