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16-Feb-20 1:58

My trusty - and fully working - old Moto G (series 1) which has done sterling service for around seven years is being replaced because it just doesn't have enough space. It's only got 8GB, no expansion capability, and Google have shoved so much bloat into it's poor frame over the years that it's got less than 1GB left.

And I need just over 1GB to install the Here WeGo England maps so I have satnav on the way to a funeral in two weeks. And since my Nexus 7 can't find enough satellites if there is a cloud around, and my Surface is far, far too big to attach to the car I've got to get a new one.

Nothing too fancy, just a lot of space and expansion capability, and maybe enough screen to replace the phone and Nexus 7 as my book reader and games-while-Herself-does-something-and-I-wait-around machine.

So I picked a Huawei P30 Lite: screen is only about 3/4" (2cm) smaller than the tablet, but the whole thing is around 1" (2.5cm) longer, and 1/4" (.75cm) wider than the phone, so it should fit in my pocket. And that 8GB rises to 128GB, with space for a 512GB SD card!
And OK, I'm not over interested in the cameras, but ... 48mp rear? 24mp for selfies? Holy moly batman! My first digital camera was a large-for-the-time 1.5mp and cost more than this whole phone ... OMG | :OMG:

I've bought a case to glue a metal strip onto so I can use the mag mounts in the car, and a nano sim is on it's way from my mobile phone signal provider.

All I've got to do now is install the software and ebooks, music, TV, ... I keep on the tablet (groan).
Plus my contacts / calendar, but Google should handle that for me.

Oh, and learn to use it ... bugger. There's always something.

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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lopatir16-Feb-20 2:19

lopatir

16-Feb-20 2:19

I'm on my third or fourth newer model smartphone, (all acquired by way of one or other family member getting a phone on a new/renewed service contract but already bought something much better).

It's true: the newer phones can do all the stuff the older ones did. beyond that I'm not sure.

Does your Welsh provider not free (or really cheap) roam to England? Google maps not part of the old phone?

I've used Here WeGo in the antipodes (offline - coming from Singapore so roaming is ex) - it's really quite good and accurate fully offline (unless worried about speed cameras.).
Remember to update the maps (at home - wifi) before subsequent trips because there's no auto update or nagging just because of an update. (another reason I like it - if not in regular use why update - untill it's needed?)

after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!

OriginalGriff16-Feb-20 2:36

16-Feb-20 2:36

I don't like Google maps for navigation, Here WeGo works really well offline, but I normally run with just the Wales maps - to add the England map I just need more space than I have available in the old phone. I like the way it says "turn slightly right" and the edge of annoyance in her voice when she tells you to turn round ... Laugh | :laugh:

Plus it's free, accurate, easy to use, and includes speed limit warnings that the other free map systems (which use OpenStreetMap data) don't cover too well. That's really handy sometimes! It's estimates of arrival time are pretty much spot on which takes some doing.

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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lopatir16-Feb-20 3:04

lopatir

16-Feb-20 3:04

yes the Here WeGo voice is nice (and amusing on indigenous place names - google is just crass).

the "turn around" definitely 'unique' (thankfully she does calm down and actually help with that - particularly if you've wrong turned on a motorway junction.)

then again when google maps says "slide right" (or left) it does inspire memories of a time long ago (before google and even navman etc) when I might have taken that quite literally.

RickZeeland16-Feb-20 3:01

RickZeeland

16-Feb-20 3:01

I have a Moto-G series 5 phone and am always amazed by the quality of the photos, it even can take HDR photos and especially in high contrast scenes it beats my Panasonic Lumix TZ camera. Of course it does not have the 30x zoom of the Lumix $Shucks | :-\$
Strange thing is that in reviews they always state that the camera quality of Moto-G phones is "mediocre" Confused | :confused:

phil.o16-Feb-20 4:38

phil.o

16-Feb-20 4:38

RickZeeland wrote:
Strange thing is that in reviews they always state that the camera quality of Moto-G phones is "mediocre"

Probably because the number of pixels is not the only parameter taken into account for quality: contrast, behaviour under low lightness, color balance, autofocus, etc., could drive the result down as well.

"Five fruits and vegetables a day? What a joke!
Personally, after the third watermelon, I'm full."

Counting bus cycles and nanoseconds

Jörgen Andersson16-Feb-20 6:24

Jörgen Andersson

16-Feb-20 6:24

It all depends on what you compare with.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello

CodeWraith16-Feb-20 0:55

16-Feb-20 0:55

Single board computers can be boring. Without any I/O ports they can't do very much. The traditional way to change that was to add a UART (that's the good old RS232 serial port, more or less) and get yourself a terminal. Quite a sight. Some rigged board or a breadboard with a handful of ICs, hooked up to a one ton terminal.

I do have a CDP1854 UART for the Zwölf, but I don't want to add that to the breadboard yet. It also would need a baud rate generator. Too many more potential errors at this point, but Zwölf does not really need it anyway.

The CDP1802 has one single output pin that can be controlled by instructions. I used it to blink a LED for the first tests. In the old days it was used for many things at once. Sound, even speech synthesis, saving your programs to cassette tape and also emulating serial communication. There are also four separate input bits, so we could also receive bytes from the terminal or the tape recorder.

Now I have added a MAX232 IC to the Zwölf and hooked it up directly to the processor's output bit and one of the four input bits. Now I only need subroutines to send and receive ASCII characters and Zwölf will become interactive.

The following code is my subroutine to send a character to the terminal. It already does a fine job on the emulator. 1200 baud are not very much, but it will be sufficient as long as the Zwölf is clocked with only 1 MHz. It uses separate call and parameter stacks (that's what all the SEX is about). I could even have up to 15 stacks if I needed them. I also don't think that RISC processors need an excessive number of instructions to actually do something.

Now, show me how you do all that with a fancy Z80 by simply adding that MAX232. And of course faster and with even shorter code. Smile | :)

; =========================================================================================
; RS232 Out (software protocol)
; 
; Parameters:
; 01	Character to be sent (byte)
; 
; Return:
; ---
; =========================================================================================

RS232OutSoftware:	SEX  R2							; save register RE onto the call stack
					GHI  RE
					STXD
					GLO  RE
					STXD

					SEX  R6							; load parameter 01 into RE.1
					IRX
					LDX
					PHI  RE

					SEQ								; Q = 0
					LDI  BIT_COUNT					; load bit counter into RE.0
					PLO  RE

					REQ								; Q = 1 (start bit)
					LDI  BIT_DELAY					; delay for one bit phase
					PLO  RF
SER_Delay1:			DEC  RF
					GLO  RF
					BNZ  SER_Delay1

SER_TransLoop:		GHI  RE							; shift out highest bit from the character
					SHRC
					PHI  RE
					LSDF							
					REQ								; Q = 1 if bit = 0
					SKP
					SEQ								; Q = 0 if bit = 1
					
					LDI  BIT_DELAY					; delay for one bit phase
					PLO  RF
SER_Delay2:			DEC  RF
					GLO  RF
					BNZ  SER_Delay2

					DEC  RE							; decrement bitcount
					GLO  RE
					LBNZ SER_TransLoop				; shift out another bit if not done yet
					
					SEQ								; Q = 0 (last phase to get back in step)
					LDI  BIT_DELAY					; delay for one bit phase
					PLO  RF
SER_Delay3:			DEC  RF
					GLO  RF
					BNZ  SER_Delay3

					LDI  BIT_DELAY					; delay for one bit phase (stop bit)
					PLO  RF
SER_Delay4:			DEC  RF
					GLO  RF
					BNZ  SER_Delay4

					SEX  R2							; restore register RE from call stack
					IRX
					LDXA
					PLO  RE
					LDX
					PHI  RE
					SEP  R5
				
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

Richard MacCutchan16-Feb-20 1:19

Richard MacCutchan

16-Feb-20 1:19

This sort of information does not deserve to drop off the end of the Lounge. How about an article (or a set thereof)? I would love to say that I understand it all, but most of the electronics are beyond me, although I am trying to learn a bit.

CodeWraith16-Feb-20 2:12

16-Feb-20 2:12

Well, at least i would have one reader, as it seems, but before I write an article, I first have to get to a point where it has become a complete computer, and not just the bare minimum.

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

bryanren17-Feb-20 3:54

bryanren

17-Feb-20 3:54

Write it, release it, as a serial.
And, two. I will read it and perhaps it gets me to pull a breadboard out of storage.

OriginalGriff16-Feb-20 1:20

16-Feb-20 1:20

Um ... You do realise that "modern" Z80 processors have integrated peripherals, including SIO?
Zilog Z180 - Wikipedia[^]

I hate to rain on your parade, but it's one line of assembler per character ... and it's buffered.

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter16-Feb-20 1:56

Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter

16-Feb-20 1:56

Those additions came to the Z80 Zwölf years after the CDP1802... Big Grin | :-D

"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012

CodeWraith16-Feb-20 1:58

16-Feb-20 1:58

If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon. Smile | :)

I was just joking about the processor nerd wars of the old days, when every additional IC was expensive. The original Z80 would need a UART, or at least a bit on a parallel port to do similar bit banging.

And before we get a real nerd war here: Long ago I followed such a 'contest' in the newsletters that I could get hold off. Someone with a 2 MHz Z80 against a 1.79 MHz CDP1802. He thought that his Z80 would blow that 'primitive', 'weird' and slow 1802 out of the water at some task. It went back and forth for a while, but nobody really won. Both processors' performance was too close to each otherin the end they only proved that even the greatest features of your processor can't help when the algorithm sucks.

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

OriginalGriff16-Feb-20 2:07

16-Feb-20 2:07

Yep, they were always pretty close - but the Z80 got much wider "general purpose" acceptance, so it got the further development the 1802 didn't but probably should have.
The 32MHz Z180 was a seriously usable chip that you can still get new and cheap today.

Not looking for a Nerd War: we're both outclassed by more modern designs like ARM and even PIC these days... Sigh | :sigh:

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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CodeWraith16-Feb-20 2:42

16-Feb-20 2:42

You know very well what kind of equipment and knowledge you would need if you want to do serious work with modern components. Just look how many people here own a car in the same price class as an oscilloscope in the 10 GHz range. Smile | :)

It would be totally unreasonable, just for a hobby. No problem. I like the old stuff, not despite the limitations but because of them. It's a little like camping, even if I could easily afford to live in a palace.

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

Mike Hankey16-Feb-20 2:26

Mike Hankey

16-Feb-20 2:26

You're right the ?vintage? Z80 probably would take more code to do the same job, but the Z80 wouldn't need all that SEX to get the job done...so there! Smile | :)

And I agree about the article, would love to see what you've done!

Monday starts Diarrhea awareness week, runs until Friday!

JaxCoder.com

Gary R. Wheeler16-Feb-20 5:19

Gary R. Wheeler

16-Feb-20 5:19

The thing I always liked about "working in the small" as it were, was figuring out how much you could do with so few resources. I wrote a piece of PIC software once that output a 5.5 KHz beep for 100ms and turned on an LED for one second every hour. The accuracy of the timing only depends upon the precision of the crystal used with the chip. I was counting clock cycles to get the timing right. The code used 4 bytes of RAM, no stack, and was only a single printed page.

Software Zen: delete this;

CodeWraith16-Feb-20 5:44

16-Feb-20 5:44

Don't forget to disable interrupts and, if you can, DMA. Otherwise your careful timing can fail very quickly. At least a PIC is a RISC processor. That makes the calculations a little easier.

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.