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GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
OriginalGriff21-May-20 4:24
mveOriginalGriff21-May-20 4:24 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
W Balboos, GHB21-May-20 5:12
mveW Balboos, GHB21-May-20 5:12 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
lopatir21-May-20 5:06
Memberlopatir21-May-20 5:06 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
W Balboos, GHB21-May-20 5:29
mveW Balboos, GHB21-May-20 5:29 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
lopatir21-May-20 5:50
Memberlopatir21-May-20 5:50 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 6:17
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 6:17 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
W Balboos, GHB21-May-20 6:29
mveW Balboos, GHB21-May-20 6:29 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 10:02
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 10:02 
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote:
As for a year's supply of produce? Where the hell can one keep it?
That you consider it as a fridge reveals that you have no experience with a good cellar. Around here, even new apartment buildings provide at least one basement booth per apartment. The temperature is not at refrigerator level, typically 8-12 C, but quite stable. Usually, the humidity is (due to the low temperature) so high that if you store vegetables and fruit, they do not dry out.

We have a tradition for quite small and low apartment buildings (2-4 floors tall), so frequently there are room for each apartment to have two basement boots and maybe a boot in the attic as well. In chained, semidetached houses, where one family occopies all floors from basement to attic, there is of course plenty of basement space. In detached houses, you have all the basement space you want.

I am currently remodeling my 1959 vintage house: The old 7 square meters food booth had plenty of room for both yearly supplies potato and carrots, oninon braids hanging from the ceiling, an long shelves for rows of glasses of jam and canned fruit, winter apples and pears, leek, turnips and rutababa, all from the garden. (The previous owner, and builder of the house, was a Home Ec teacher.) It is far more than I need, so I split it into two rooms: One 4 sqm room with a cooler keeping it at almost fridge temperature. The cooler deposits the heat in the room taking the remaining 3 sqm, making it a warm room for fermenting beer and fruit wine made on products from the garden. Having a basement cool room like this is quite common around here.

Somewhat less common: At a power outage, a basement cool room will keep the temperature reasonably low for quite a few days, but temperature will rise. I am also installing a heat pump, with a ground circuit a couple of meters down in the ground for collecting heat at winter time. In summer, the heating fluid circulates to be cooled, for air condition through heat exchangers - the only energy required for cooling is that of the circulation pump and the fans in the heat exchanger. No compressor is required. This draws so little power that it can be run off a solar panel. I put a heat exchanger in the cool room as well, so at a power outage when the cooler doesn't work, the heat exchanger will probably be able to keep the room at 6-8 C, all run on solar power.

A major reason why I reduced the size from 7 to 4 sqm is that house remodeling gives me lots of new basement space (I am building a "winter garden", with basement underneath). Stuff that doesn't need fridge cooling, such as canned food, dried food etc., will have plenty of shelf space there. That will release plenty of space for stuff that doesn't really need the cooling for preservation purposes, but that I would like to be cooled when I go to pick it up, such as carbonated drinks (even unfermented varities!).

If you live in a 12 floor metropolitan apartment building, with the basement reserved for car parking, and there is no attic, your situation is obviously different. Here, we have some, but not very many, apartment buildings like that. To most families, finding room to store canned, dried or inherently storage-friendly food (like poatoes or carrots in humid sand) is no major problem, if they decide to.
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
ZurdoDev21-May-20 6:35
mveZurdoDev21-May-20 6:35 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
W Balboos, GHB21-May-20 6:48
mveW Balboos, GHB21-May-20 6:48 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
ZurdoDev21-May-20 6:53
mveZurdoDev21-May-20 6:53 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 8:49
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 8:49 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
ZurdoDev21-May-20 9:30
mveZurdoDev21-May-20 9:30 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 11:02
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 11:02 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 6:42
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 6:42 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 5:33
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 5:33 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
W Balboos, GHB21-May-20 5:41
mveW Balboos, GHB21-May-20 5:41 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 8:04
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 8:04 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
W Balboos, GHB21-May-20 8:20
mveW Balboos, GHB21-May-20 8:20 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
Member 798912221-May-20 11:28
MemberMember 798912221-May-20 11:28 
GeneralRe: Preparing for the Second Wave Pin
W Balboos, GHB22-May-20 2:19
mveW Balboos, GHB22-May-20 2:19 
GeneralIf you are in the same boat... Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter21-May-20 2:12
mveKornfeld Eliyahu Peter21-May-20 2:12 
GeneralRe: If you are in the same boat... Pin
Richard Deeming22-May-20 1:08
mveRichard Deeming22-May-20 1:08 
GeneralRe: If you are in the same boat... Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-May-20 10:25
mveKornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-May-20 10:25 
GeneralRe: If you are in the same boat... Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-May-20 10:27
mveKornfeld Eliyahu Peter23-May-20 10:27 

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