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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
User 153100725-Sep-21 6:03
MemberUser 153100725-Sep-21 6:03 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
jschell5-Sep-21 9:11
Memberjschell5-Sep-21 9:11 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Gary R. Wheeler5-Sep-21 6:20
MemberGary R. Wheeler5-Sep-21 6:20 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
jsc425-Sep-21 22:16
professionaljsc425-Sep-21 22:16 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Richard MacCutchan5-Sep-21 7:18
mveRichard MacCutchan5-Sep-21 7:18 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Sander Rossel5-Sep-21 8:31
professionalSander Rossel5-Sep-21 8:31 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
DerekT-P5-Sep-21 9:21
professionalDerekT-P5-Sep-21 9:21 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Sander Rossel5-Sep-21 9:32
professionalSander Rossel5-Sep-21 9:32 
DerekT-P wrote:
But you're talking about "developers".
So did the OP, although he called them "code monkeys".
DerekT-P wrote:
There used to be disciplines (that word again) such as business analyst, systems analyst etc and I'm sure there still are.
I've worked with them, so they're still around.
DerekT-P wrote:
As a "full stack" freelancer I'm constantly trying to not only learn my client's business, but bring knowledge and ideas from other industries (clients) together with new technology-related ideas and concepts to try and give the client that innovation and advantage. It gets frustrating when the client tells me too precisely what they "want" and doesn't involve me in their business processes - it's like having my hands tied and I know I can't bring the added value I'd like.
Agreed on everything you said, though I wouldn't call you, or me, a code monkey.
And technically, we're not just developers either.
I do like my client to tell me exactly what they want, and then I can go about and tell them how I'm going to do it.
When the customer starts to tell me about the how, I get annoyed, because that's them telling me how to do my job.
DerekT-P wrote:
Failing that, if it's a small site that can't justify multiple roles, get the developers on some business analysis and systems design courses.
Exactly, I've worked for such a company.
Except we didn't get courses, we just went to the client, had some meetings, and started building.
Any questions were asked directly to the client, as we ran into them, by phone or email.
It was pretty ad-hoc, which is how I still do most of my coding Big Grin | :-D

GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Nelek5-Sep-21 21:38
protectorNelek5-Sep-21 21:38 
GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Jörgen Andersson5-Sep-21 20:32
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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Sander Rossel5-Sep-21 22:06
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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Jörgen Andersson5-Sep-21 22:12
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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Sander Rossel5-Sep-21 22:39
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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
Jörgen Andersson5-Sep-21 23:39
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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
RedDk5-Sep-21 8:46
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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
jschell5-Sep-21 9:13
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GeneralRe: Abstract thought of d/m/y - Code Monkeys Pin
BillWoodruff6-Sep-21 5:09
mveBillWoodruff6-Sep-21 5:09 
JokeSo I just read a leaked script of the politically correct remaster of LOTR... Pin
Sander Rossel5-Sep-21 3:58
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GeneralRe: So I just read a leaked script of the politically correct remaster of LOTR... Pin
Daniel Pfeffer5-Sep-21 8:25
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GeneralRe: So I just read a leaked script of the politically correct remaster of LOTR... Pin
DRHuff5-Sep-21 12:41
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GeneralRe: So I just read a leaked script of the politically correct remaster of LOTR... Pin
Rage5-Sep-21 23:33
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GeneralHappy Birthday Honey the Codewitch! Pin
OriginalGriff4-Sep-21 21:30
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GeneralRe: Happy Birthday Honey the Codewitch! Pin
Nelek4-Sep-21 21:51
protectorNelek4-Sep-21 21:51 
GeneralRe: Happy Birthday Honey the Codewitch! Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter4-Sep-21 22:25
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GeneralRe: Happy Birthday Honey the Codewitch! Pin
Jon McKee4-Sep-21 23:24
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