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I totally agree with you, take my 5.
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Troy Marchand wrote: Well I am quite sure that anyone in the 200k category is an owner or part owner of a company that is now doing quite well.
But then would it count as a salary? Ife he/she owns the company, while he/she might have an official salary, that's a rather superficial thing really, is it not?
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Well if one is running the company properly (in my opinion) then even the owner(s) needs to take a proper salary. If the owner takes all of the profit out of the company it leaves nothing for growth, dips in sales, and rewarding those who helped you get to where you are. In other words it leads to a 'death spiral'. This is one of the reasons many people do not succeed ... they take out too much money too soon, and the company goes under (in otherwords the initial success leads to greed which leads to downfall). Now sure most owners do take bonuses on top of the salary usually in the form of profit sharing, but this amount needs to be reasonable as well.
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Troy Marchand wrote: If the owner takes all of the profit out of the company it leaves nothing for growth, dips in sales, and rewarding those who helped you get to where you are. In other words it leads to a 'death spiral'. This is one of the reasons many people do not succeed ... they take out too much money too soon, and the company goes under (in otherwords the initial success leads to greed which leads to downfall).
Thanks Troy, that makes sense  I'll keep this in mind 15 years down the lane when I run my billion-dollar company 
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote: I'll keep this in mind 15 years down the lane when I run my billion-dollar company
Hain...Is I have to give interview for Job there?
"Opinions are neither right nor wrong. I cannot change your opinion. I can, however, change what influences your opinion." - David Crow
cheers,
Alok Gupta
VC Forum Q&A :- I/ IV
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Stock option grants go a long way to making folks rich too (as well as hiding the real cost of doing so from investors). Maybe the $200K folks are adding it all in to reward their egos.
A person willing to check their ethics and morality at the key-card reader can quite easily make it into that camp. There is a lot of room in the US economy for charlatans and schemers. A willingness to abuse others in the name of "capitalism" is a quick-pass to financial success. This assumes the person holds the requisite smarts, etiquette and situational awareness (i.e the ability to lie well and smile).
All this should make us appreciate Google that much more. They've made themselves absurdly rich without resorting to the scummy tactics employed by their predecessors and peers.
-- modified at 14:49 Tuesday 15th November, 2005
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Maybe he's Bill Gates??? 
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Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us.
My Blog [ITA]
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Can you really make a living (perhaps even with a family) from $20K (gross amount, i think)?
In Germany, you need about double that money to arrive in the middle class.
With a bachelor style of living you can make it with less, but not as a familiy man.
"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganised. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganising: and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation."
-- Caius Petronius, Roman Consul, 66 A.D.
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jhwurmbach wrote: In Germany, you need about double that money to arrive in the middle class.
Well where I live (Pittsburgh PA,USA) that is about the same as you. 40K minimium for a family of more than 2.
John
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In poland we have about 2000zl (700$),
I must give for live 400$. And what about my earnings?
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Well... it's possible
(Living in Mexico)
daniero
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Well, if I only didn't hate german language so much  , I'd move to germany  . Here in Czech is average salary in IT about $20k per year  . But we have more beautiful girls and better beer  . Ofcourse managers or team-leaders or employers from big international companies have some more.
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Tony Kmoch wrote: Well, if I only didn't hate german language so much , I'd move to germany
There should not be real problems in pronounciation for you, but I think the hatred is mainly historical.
In the german-speaking Habsburg-ruled Austria, czech was the language of the serfs and rural workers. Whoever wanted social advancement was forced to use the german tongue.
And I think the Czech nation has struggled much to free themself from this feelings of inferiority. And was then opressed by nazi-germany and stalinism in a row.
Tony Kmoch wrote: Here in Czech is average salary in IT about $20k per year
But living is much cheaper, even in Prague (Well, 2001 it was). Housing, food, clothing is much cheaper than half of what we pay here.
computers, cars, technical goods are only a little or nothing at all cheaper.
In fact, I think what you can buy for $20K is about the same you get over here for double that amount.
So was my feeling when I was in Prague in 2001.
Tony Kmoch wrote: But we have more beautiful girls and better beer
About the girls, I am quite satisfied with the default one at home
But the Beer, well, the way they used to brew it in Plzen / Pilsen (look! about the same sounds wit a different transcription!) has long since become the default one here in Germany. And my region, northern germany, has a tradition in brewery dating back to the middle ages - we know when we drink good beer. And 'Pils' definitely is!
"We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganised. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganising: and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress, while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation."
-- Caius Petronius, Roman Consul, 66 A.D.
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Hey now, before we get into a big argument over who has the best beer, you may as well all conceed. It's obviously Oregon, in the US. Even the Australians think so -- and who knows beer better than them?
http://www.beerawards.com/results_2005.asp[^]
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I think a percentage comparison between the median net income in your country vs your net income would be more telling than an absolute dollar value. It doesn't matter how much you make as much as how much money you keep from what you make 
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Damn, I'm a trainee ... so my salary is about $6500 /year
Goodbye and thanks for the fish!
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Hey - we've all been there. I worked part-time as a programmer through college in the early 80's. I was paid from $5.50 to $8.10 an hour during that period. I made my employer a ton of money, since they routinely charged our clients $40-$50 per hour for my time.
Software Zen: delete this;
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See my earlier post regarding capitalism unfettered by the bounds of ethics and morality.
http://www.codeproject.com/script/survey/detail.asp?survey=514&forumid=233556&select=1282328&fr=16&df=100#xx1282328xx
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...who ear between $100000 and $125000 a year !?  
whatever the country, is the a developer salary ?
TOXCCT >>> GEII power
[toxcct][VisualCalc]
-- modified at 3:30 Monday 14th November, 2005
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It's an unemployed coder who needs to show off...
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Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language!
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He's showing off, that's all. 
His real income might be between 15 and 20 US$.
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Please inform me about my English mistakes, as I'm still trying to learn your language!
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my guess would be a senior systems architect or project manager. Probly not your average developer role...
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Okay, work with me here - I am looking at these numbers and can't believe how low they are.
I don't live in the USA - but I am a USA citizen with work from the USA (and other countries). Yes, I am in the bracket that you think is unreal (100,000+)
But I know quite a few people who are close to that, if not in that range.
I just develop now - but I have been a Director and a Chief Architect.
My work is specialized and I have more than 20 years of experience too.
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