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Hi,
Work is work... so if somebody pays for working with Microsoft tools, and Microsoft tools are expensive but good... what to do... I would like to work with Open Source and free things, but no money on it, and not real ( I mean REAL), powerful tools to make development.... and when is one good tool you have to pay more money than with Microsoft, if you want to do more than the "Hello World" application...
... a pity...
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My anwer would be "My customers (all of them) have drunk from the fountain of Microsoft and they'll be enjoying the taste for a few years to come yet...
So...
Come in MFC (and .NET and all that other crap)!!!!!!!
Im happy enough with Microsofts technologies if my customers are. Im not smart or quick enough to learn new technologies (oustide of microsoft) just for the hell of it.
And im NOT going back to the 80s when we built a "lowest common demoninator" API in house and ported to a whole pile of elegent but thankless platforms (remember AOS/VS from DG, brother).
At least Microsoft introduced marketing focus in some sense. Dont you gys remember the 80s when some marketting fool would sidle in and anounce "Ive just sold your scientific application to a customer that insists on IBM VM/CMS.
Thank god for Bill Gates...
Cheers.
Dave Carkeet.
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I get so tired of programming the same GUI's, the same SQL statements, etc., etc. COM didn't live up to my expectations. I wish MS would put some work into automation and self-generating code. Save me some real time.
Of course, I could stop bitching about it and do something myself!
Marc
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MS tells us that the .NET Framework is sth really revolutionary.
Ñ There is only one MP Ð
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I do think the .NET technology is revolutionary. It's great that C# and VB compile down to the same code base, the web services is cool, and making useful web pages is now really easy.
But this is all eye-candy. I don't use any of these technologies with my clients (maybe I have the wrong clients). I write applications that integrate tightly with databases and third party apps like Visio. There hasn't been anything revolutionary in database interface technologies or GUI development. Argh.
Marc
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I do however think that database manip. in .NET has taken a big step forward. The DataSet is very useful and ADO.NET certainly makes using SPs a snap.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I wish MS would put some work into automation and self-generating code. Save me some real time.
I know what you mean, I spend so much time doing the same stuff over and over again. Code reuse can only go so far, I'd like to see languages develop to make programmers lives easier (not just give us newer toys)....
Of course, even if MS did this - I'd probably still bitch that the generated code wasn't up to my standards and didn't give me the flexibility that I'm used to 
Michael
Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
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Michael P Butler wrote:
I'd probably still bitch that the generated code wasn't up to my standards and didn't give me the flexibility that I'm used to
 I started reading your post, read what you said initially and was half way to writing back an indignant reply along the lines of "but you would bitch that the generated code is not good enough!" and then I noticed what you said at the end.
But you are dead right. Even with simple old HTML they have not managed to create an app which generates good HTML which keeps code purity nazis like me happy. So heaven knows how they are going to manage C++ 
Michael P Butler wrote:
not just give us newer toys
We like new toys. Screw the practical applications of .NET, it is just plain old fun fiddling around with it.
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Paul Watson wrote:
I started reading your post, read what you said initially and was half way to writing back an indignant reply along the lines of "but you would bitch that the generated code is not good enough!" and then I noticed what you said at the end.
I have this big problem as a coder. I want my life to be easier, I want to use wizards and RAD development methods to speed up application development. I want to concentrate on my functionality and not on the boilerplate ......
but I can't seem to let go. I like my code a certain way, I'd much rather write the code to open a database connection rather than drag a Connection object onto the form. I'd much rather fill a combo box from a database via code than use one of those data linked controls.
Am I doomed to die out like the dinosaur that I am?
Michael
Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
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Michael P Butler wrote:
Am I doomed to die out like the dinosaur that I am?
Not at all.
When I first got VS.NET I dragged and dropped every control and data component I could. I fiddled and saw the code that was generated, figured out what was needed to get data from the db and into a datagrid etc.
Now though about the only thing I go into the Form Designer for is to set docking and colours. I have found it is actually quicker to code SqlConnection sqlconDubya = new SqlConnection(); than to go through the dragging and dropping process.
I think as a learning and fiddling tool the dragging and dropping is great. But as an actual producer of real world application code, it is not so great.
Funnily enough my code purity nazi HTML ways have made me a better programmer because I now value each line more and make sure the code is readable, whatever language.
So I do not see how we are going to pull ourselves away from the source and into the RAD way. We are all control freaks
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put some work into automation and self-generating code
already been done - try Lisp
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((((Tried) Did) I)) (((Hated) It) Me))
Marc
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LOL
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... but everybody uses Windows, Office and VS! It is fashionable to hate Microsoft. I'm brave. I like MS!
Ñ There is only one MP Ð
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Brave are you? So I am, I love IE! (best product, period!)
ÿVOTD:9 "Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun- all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun." - Ecc 9:9
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Yes!
I like Microsoft too
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I do!
-Munchen
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and you remain anonymous, in fear. 
BW
{insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}
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I am simply tired of the ways he is moving to make all MS products to become rented. I admire Gates for way he has made a good thing profitable but he is taking it too far. Soon the air we breathe will be rented out to us by Disney or MS. I really dont like MS' way of business but it simply is the easiest way to get something done. So in a way i do say I like MS but I will be careful of what I buy. 
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Gates rules, people. I'm with him all the way
nous sommes les maitres
nous sommes les esclaves
nous sommes partout
nous sommes nul part
nous maitrisons les lettres noires
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TemplMetaProg wrote:
Gates rules, people
I agree completely. He is trying to rule us all
Programming in binary is as easy as 01 10 11.
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I like the way you think
- Matt Newman / Windows XP Activist
-Sonork ID: 100.11179
"You can't seriously believe that you could get away with suing someone over quoting text from a message posted in a public forum, can you?" - John Simmons
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If Microsoft makes you successful how can you say you hate Microsoft. Without Microsoft you probably wouldn't have a job. All programmers would be working for free.
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