Re: Where do you see Silverlight a few years from now? - WPF Discussion Boards

The Webbrowser in WPF can’t display page unless mouse moving on.

28-Dec-09 11:54

This is really an intreop question.

I have no idea what AutoIt is.

As for Flash to WPF.

Hmm, My question is how do you put FLAH into a WPF application. I think what you are really asking is how to interop between Flash and Silverlight. You can host WPF in a browser but it is not safe for normal use over the internet etc.

Well, I'm not sure on the Flash side but Silverlight can script to HTML DOM. That is how I would do it. Short of that, you would have to write a plug-in for both applications and have the server host some sort of COM between the two. In this case it wouldn't matter what you used. However you don't have the source. So that's not an option.

D'Oh! | :doh:

CooperWu23-Dec-09 17:18

CooperWu

23-Dec-09 17:18

The Webbrowser in WPF can't display page unless mouse moving on.

This bug can't reproduce in my demo project, and I don't know how to fix it. I tried:

call WindowsFormsHost.UpdateLayout. (Failed)
call WindowsFormsHost's child, a WebBrowser control. call WebBrowser.Update or WebBrowser.Refresh. (Failed)
call WindowsFormsHost.InvalidateVisual() (Failed)
Is there other solution?

I even simulated mouse moving on like this:

AutomationElement element = AutomationElement.FromHandle(winAdHoster.Handle);
ATGTestInput.Input.MoveToAndClick(element);

this failed again.

Glad to discuss with you and best wishes.

Where do you see Silverlight a few years from now?

Goalie3523-Dec-09 4:52

Goalie35

23-Dec-09 4:52

Hello. My company is looking into beginning to integrate Silverlight into some of our upcoming web projects soon, but before we do, I want to get some opinions from those who are already experienced in developing in it.

From what I've read, Silverlight seems to be slowly picking up marketshare (the stats I read showed it's now installed in 40% of all users computers), which is a good thing...but what do you see for the future of Silverlight? Is it here to stay or would you consider its future unknown at this point?

Have your users voiced reluctance to install Silverlight or have you seen an uptick in customer service calls/emails because they couldn't or didn't want to install Silverlight to view your web pages?

Just trying to weigh our options at this point before we dive into it.

Thanks.

Re: Where do you see Silverlight a few years from now?

Ian Shlasko23-Dec-09 5:08

Ian Shlasko

23-Dec-09 5:08

Hard to say, this early in the game (Ok, it's not THAT early)... But here are my predictions:

1) Adoption will continue to be slow for a while, because let's face it... Most people don't even know what Silverlight is, and Microsoft isn't using their marketing machine yet (Probably waiting until version 4 to start pushing it).

2) Microsoft will package SilverLight in with the next Windows 7 service pack and all subsequent OS versions. Adobe will raise the old monopoly issue (Using one monopoly to gain another), but MS will just claim it's part of the .NET/WPF framework.

3) Flash will hang on for a long time as a game development platform and for "rich content" websites (Pretty menus, etc), but Silverlight will take over for more serious web applications, particularly e-commerce.

Disclaimer: These are just my personal predictions, not established facts, so agree or disagree at your own risk.

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)

Re: Where do you see Silverlight a few years from now?

Mark Salsbery23-Dec-09 6:16

Re: Where do you see Silverlight a few years from now? [modified]

23-Dec-09 6:16

There's no guarantees in any platform one chooses to develop for,
but I do know Silverlight is actively and rapidly being developed
and there's no indication that is going to cease. New versions are
being released at an unprecedented rate. New controls are released
early via the toolkit so they get well tested/fixed in live environments
before being rolled into the Silverlight runtime.

I find the whole "market share" thing kind of goofy...
The end-user part of Silverlight is free so IMO doesn't have a
"market share" of anything. It has an installed base perhaps.
End users aren't going to install Silverlight unless they go to
websites that require Silverlight. Publish the websites and they
will install Silverlight. As more sites use Silverlight, the
installed base will grow.

My end users are doctors - not all of whom are computer savvy.
I was a bit worried at first about whether they would install
Silverlight. I chose to not specifically mention it and just see what
happens. I customized the "Must Install Silverlight" HTML adding
an email link users could use if they had any questions, concerns,
or problems. Happily, I have received exactly ONE contact this year,
and that was just someone in a locked down environment that needed to
have one of their IT people allow the install - the IT person installed
it without hesitation.

In summary, I love it, and my users love it. There's zero application
deployment issues for the end-user, it runs on Macs, and I get to use
familiar development languages/tools to provide all that.

Mark Salsbery
Microsoft MVP - Visual C++
Java | [Coffee]

crystal915425-Dec-09 4:47

crystal9154

25-Dec-09 4:47

I am a Microsoft developer, have been for over ten years. When I first heard about Silverlight I was excited as it offered me the opportunity to utilize RIA (rich internet applications) while utilizing the XAML markup and .Net framework language. It short, it allowed me to mimic a Flash website/component, and then, surpass it using .Net for major database and other high-level code/interactive programming.

However, here is the glitch. I have been unsuccessful in getting Silverlight to install on IE (works fine on Firefox). Now, if I, as a seasoned programmer cannot get Silverlight to install properly on IE, despite all attempts and researching how to fix, then surely I am not alone, and this glitch could harm any project I deliver in Silverlight.

Programming is moving into RIA with a roar, and that is the future. Windows forms is being "replaced" with Windows Presentation Foundation, a very powerful format that delivers AWESOME PC-level programs. Silverlight is the "sister" of WPF in that it is the Web counterpart of WPF (albeit with a few less features).

I do not think MS is promoting Silverlight well, and true to form, I believe MS is releasing Silverlight, warts and all, just to get it out. As of this writing Silverlight 4 is do out soon. MS has followed an unprecedented rapid upgrades of a programs versions in Silverlight as has never been seen before (Silverlight 1 came out in late 2007).

While I can tell you with absolute certainty that the Internet will migrate out of the standard HTML format into a more robust RIA format, such as XAML, I worry Silverilght will always be the bastard child in that new venue with Adobe Flash & Adobe Air (like MS WPF) being the preeminent tools.

This does not please me as the last thing I want to do is learn ActionScript. ActionScript is a toy compared to the .Net Framework. If by mid-2010, MS does not clean up its act with a flawless Silverlight install on the browser, and additionally, if the Silverlight.net website does not pursue a more advanced approach to teaching developers on how to program in Silverlight (they provide just stupid toys & snippets), I would not recommend developing a site in Silverlight. The fact that NBC Sports & MLB.com both in a span of less than 6 months dropped the Silverlight technology and switched to Flash is a telling sign.

So in short, the future of the Net? Definetly RIA. As to whether Silverlight or Flash, I think the jury will be returning a decision real soon and Microsoft & Silverlight.net, because of their ineptitude ( ie. I mean, come on, MS has billions to play with), will not like the decision. Do NOT rush into developing a Silverlight website at this time: Since Microsoft has shown no real commitment to throw GOOD money & utilitize compentent management to the success of Silverlight (Scott Gunthrie is the MS VP in charge of Silverlight) I would not deploy one line of Silverlight code to your website.

modified on Friday, December 25, 2009 10:55 AM

Re: Where do you see Silverlight a few years from now?

ProtoBytes28-Dec-09 11:09

Re: Where do you see Silverlight a few years from now?

28-Dec-09 11:09

crystal9154 wrote:
However, here is the glitch. I have been unsuccessful in getting Silverlight to install on IE (works fine on Firefox). Now, if I, as a seasoned programmer cannot get Silverlight to install properly on IE, despite all attempts and researching how to fix, then surely I am not alone, and this glitch could harm any project I deliver in Silverlight.

Probability because you have a DEV machine with things the locals won't or shouldn't have.

Silverlight 3 installs in about 3 min. I have never had any gotchas on any installation and I am a developer and architect.

crystal9154 wrote:
Programming is moving into RIA with a roar, and that is the future. Windows forms is being "replaced" with Windows Presentation Foundation, a very powerful format that delivers AWESOME PC-level programs. Silverlight is the "sister" of WPF in that it is the Web counterpart of WPF (albeit with a few less features).

This is really already happening, but WPF isn't Silverlight.

crystal9154 wrote:
MS does not clean up its act with a flawless Silverlight install on the browser, and additionally, if the Silverlight.net website does not pursue a more advanced approach to teaching developers on how to program in Silverlight (they provide just stupid toys & snippets),

Really? Where do you get that idea? Google 'Silverlight tutorial' some time how many results are there? Guess: 1,510,000 Okay lets be more specific: 'Silverlight Tutorial' site:MSDN.com. Okay only: 7,820, but remember that is just tutorials on MSDN alone...

crystal9154 wrote:
I would not recommend developing a site in Silverlight.

I don't think this is the correct term 'site', you develop applications in Silverlight not sites. The application or (applet as they are called in Java) run on the web page hosted by the site.

ProtoBytes28-Dec-09 11:24

Text mouse selection while list binding..

28-Dec-09 11:24

Goalie35 wrote:
My company is looking into beginning to integrate Silverlight into some of our upcoming web projects soon

Okay that is nice, but have you ask the question: 'Why are we thinking of doing this?

Every successful application must fist use the correct technology to be successful. Ie. I wouldn't use JAVA as my technology on a windows installation when I can use .NET. Reason being I only need to support one operating system, .NET is better suited for Windows and I gain nothing using Java.

Goalie35 wrote:
I want to get some opinions from those who are already experienced in developing in it

Well, I enjoy developing under both WPF and Silverlight. They are both way easier to develop under then the competing technologies. And as Microsoft's track record shows they keep making it easier to develop with. For example the edition of SketchFlow (a rapid proto typing development system) integrated into the new version of Expression Blend (The Designer Studio usied to develop Silverlight and WPF).

Goalie35 wrote:
From what I've read, Silverlight seems to be slowly picking up marketshare

Check it out on Google Trends:

Silverlight on Google Trends[^]

Goalie35 wrote:
but what do you see for the future of Silverlight?

It will only keep getting better as more people keep using and downloading it. I think it's the way of the future. I really like the new stuff they added with .NET 4 and Silverlight 3. I made some requirements in an application I was to develop as an MS ISV. All the missing items in my design were added to Silverlight 3. I think it's going to continue to grow and gain support from the community.

Goalie35 wrote:
Just trying to weigh our options at this point before we dive into it.

I don't have a crystal ball for you. I would google ScottGu and find out what he has released on it. Usually they are pretty tight lipped about it. SketchFlow is really going to save many people a lot of time in the development process. I had a hand in giving my opinion on that also.

I would make a matrix. Create a dream list of what you want and need both now and in the future. Then measure and weigh it against other products.

XAML has already suceeded SVG and Adobie no longer supports it. SVG is a technology like XAML but requires JavaScript to be used to make it really useful as a Rich End Point.

koltaviy23-Dec-09 2:28

koltaviy

23-Dec-09 2:28

Hi all.

What we have:
I have a listbox binded to the CollectionViewSource.

What I need:
Allow a user to select any block of text in the listbox to copy it like it was in a richtextbox.

I wonder if I can realize it someway. I don't think it's the best idea to use richtextbox for holding items.

The DataTemplate for listbox ItemTemplate:

<DataTemplate x:Key="ChatMessageTemplate" DataType="{x:Type bl:Message}"><br />
            <Grid Name="gMessages">     <br />
                <Grid.RowDefinitions><br />
                    <RowDefinition Height="14"/><br />
                    <RowDefinition Height="*"/><br />
                </Grid.RowDefinitions>                <br />
                <TextBlock Name="tbHeader" Margin="4,2,0,0" Grid.Row="0" FontFamily="Segoe UI" FontSize="10"  Foreground="Black" FontWeight="Bold" TextAlignment="Left" VerticalAlignment="Top" HorizontalAlignment="Left"><br />
                    <TextBlock.Text><br />
                        <MultiBinding StringFormat="{}{0} ({1})"><br />
                            <Binding Path="Author.Name" /><br />
                            <Binding Path="CreationDate" />                                <br />
                        </MultiBinding><br />
                    </TextBlock.Text>   <br />
                </TextBlock>                <br />
                <!--{Binding ElementName=gMessages, Path=ActualWidth}--><br />
                <!--HorizontalAlignment="Left" TextAlignment="Left"-->                <br />
                <TextBlock Width="300" Name="tbText" Grid.Row="1" Margin="4,0,0,0" FontFamily="Segoe UI" Text="{Binding Path=Text, Mode=OneWay}" FontSize="10" Foreground="Black" TextWrapping="Wrap" HorizontalAlignment="Stretch"/><br />
            </Grid><br />
<br />
            <DataTemplate.Triggers><br />
                <DataTrigger Binding="{Binding Path=Author.ID, Converter={StaticResource isCurrentUserConverter}}" Value="false"><br />
                    <Setter TargetName="tbHeader" Property="Foreground" Value="Blue" /><br />
                </DataTrigger><br />
            </DataTemplate.Triggers><br />
        </DataTemplate>

Re: Text mouse selection while list binding..

ProtoBytes29-Dec-09 11:30

Re: Text mouse selection while list binding..

29-Dec-09 11:30

I just posted a tip/trick from the April MSDN issue for doing this. It is actually a Dynamic Data / Data Binding article.

The article creates a bridge between FrameworkElement and FrameworkContentElement.

The demo shows how to create a data bound Item list which is (clip board friendly).

Here is the MSDN article demo link:

http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/mag200904DynamicWPF[^]

And my tip/trick

http://www.codeproject.com/tips/49506/WPF-Simple-Bridge-between-a-FrameworkElement-and-a.aspx[^]

koltaviy29-Dec-09 17:34

koltaviy

29-Dec-09 17:34

Thanks a lot. Looks like a solution.

WPF: Starting Tutorials

Abbas_here22-Dec-09 20:56

Abbas_here

22-Dec-09 20:56

Hi frds...I am working with Asp.Net and c#, now i installed Expression web 3 for for learning some basics of WPF or Silverlight...Can anybody give me a suggestion for starting tutorials which suited me as developer.

Re: WPF: Starting Tutorials

Mark Salsbery23-Dec-09 7:15

Re: WPF: Starting Tutorials

23-Dec-09 7:15

WPF:
WPF on WindowsClient.NET[^]
WPF Documentation[^]

Silverlight:
Silverlight: Get Started[^]
Silverlight Documentation[^]

Mark Salsbery
Microsoft MVP - Visual C++
Java | [Coffee]

Abbas_here23-Dec-09 18:28

Abbas_here

23-Dec-09 18:28

Thanks a lot Smile | :)

Load dll client side

Adriaan Davel22-Dec-09 20:37

22-Dec-09 20:37

Hi,
I'm working on extensibility of my Silverlight application and would like to load a dll on the client side and invoke methods based on an interface, can it be done? Any links to good articles?

I would prefer to not include it in my build of my application, ie the client can upload extensions, and then invoke them, so its not a referenced library...

____________________________________________________________
Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave

Mark Salsbery24-Dec-09 7:57

24-Dec-09 7:57

Adriaan Davel wrote:
would like to load a dll on the client side and invoke methods based on an interface, can it be done?

Yes.

Given a Stream to an assembly DLL, you can use the
AssemblyPart.Load method to load the assembly into
the current app domain and get an Assembly object.
Then you can use Assembly.CreateInstance to create
instances of classes in the assembly.

Stream sourcestream = ...;
AssemblyPart assemblypart = new AssemblyPart();
Assembly assembly = assemblypart.Load(sourcestream);
IMyInterface myinterfaceobject = assembly.CreateInstance("MyNamespace.SomeClassThatInheritsFromIMyInterface") as IMyInterface;

Mark Salsbery
Microsoft MVP - Visual C++
Java | [Coffee]

Adriaan Davel3-Jan-10 19:41

3-Jan-10 19:41

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply. Loading the assembly and creating an instance is easy enough, my challenge is getting the assembly to the client side in the best possible way as it will not ship with the .xap file, any ideas around that?

____________________________________________________________
Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave

Mark Salsbery3-Jan-10 19:56

3-Jan-10 19:56

Adriaan Davel wrote:
my challenge is getting the assembly to the client side in the best possible way as it will not ship with the .xap file, any ideas around that?

Maybe try downloading it like you would any resource.

For example, Using the WebClient class' OpenReadAsync() method
to download the assembly DLL, you'll get a stream in the
OpenReadCompleted event which you can use in the sample code
I posted.

Mark Salsbery
Microsoft MVP - Visual C++
Java | [Coffee]

Adriaan Davel3-Jan-10 20:33

3-Jan-10 20:33

I've played with OpenReadAsync and it works well, but it means that I have to download the assembly everytime, which I'm trying to avoid...

____________________________________________________________
Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave

Mark Salsbery3-Jan-10 20:44

3-Jan-10 20:44

Adriaan Davel wrote:
it means that I have to download the assembly everytime, which I'm trying to avoid...

The XAP file is downloaded every time too, along with every
resource not included in the XAP file. Cached versions will be
used if available.

The only option you have without user intervention is
isolated storage.

Mark Salsbery
Microsoft MVP - Visual C++
Java | [Coffee]

Adriaan Davel4-Jan-10 2:44

4-Jan-10 2:44

Thanks, right now I'm trying to understand MEF, else Isolated Storage is probably the right option...

____________________________________________________________
Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave

Mark Salsbery24-Dec-09 8:39