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Message Removed 13-Dec-10 3:57 N_tro_P 13-Dec-10 3:57  Message Removed Re: Dedicated Testers will do a better job than a biased programmer Slacker00713-Dec-10 5:15 Slacker007 13-Dec-10 5:15  Agree. That is why authors are not supposed to edit their own work. That is the job of an editor. Re: Dedicated Testers will do a better job than a biased programmer BigJohnT13-Dec-10 12:06 BigJohnT 13-Dec-10 12:06  I agree that there should be independent testing particularly at the functional and requirements level. However, code is a work product and a developer should deliver a quality work product. A developer who takes ownership over what he delivers needs to be able to say, "My code functions as I intended". A writer .e.g. might proof-read, spell check and grammar check their document prior to handing it over to someone else to proof-read it. No editor wants to receive a document that is full of typos. I would also argue that regarding unit-test the developer is the best qualified to perform it. Once it becomes integrated or a system level test a dedicated tester will be the best choice. I also believe in Test-Driven-Development and so when writing new code will often write the tests first and then the code. The end result is that very few bugs are submitted against my code. Our company also practices code-review. We are semi-agile. I have worked on both sides - as a dedicated tester and as a developer. I have seen far better success in quality projects being released on time when developers do their own code verification coupled with independent validation as opposed to independent test alone. Of course they should test their own code Paul Darlington13-Dec-10 2:52 Paul Darlington 13-Dec-10 2:52  Developers should always test their own code. That however should not be the only testing. As a developer I test my implementation, I run the application, or whatever, and test the new stuff I have implemented. I walk through all the paths I have written in debug mode and confirm that what I expect to happen actually does. When I am happy with it peers test it. When they are happy testers test it. When they are happy internal staff test it. Finally selected customers test it. If all of the above are happy we release it and wait for the complaints. Re: Of course they should test their own code James Kosin20-Dec-10 3:50 James Kosin 20-Dec-10 3:50  I take it a step further by encouraging the testers to try and break the code. Often times, the developer gets locked into the normal cases and tends to forget the true randomness of real life. No Can Do W∴ Balboos, GHB13-Dec-10 2:25 W∴ Balboos, GHB 13-Dec-10 2:25  As my previous employers finally learned, a programmer cannot properly test his own code. First, there's that hauntingly beautiful poem "It works on my machine". Secondly, developers don't think like users (Praise Be !), and so won't do stupid things (at least, not as often). That doesn't mean they shouldn't test it at all: it should work as expected, boundary conditions checked, and as much a defensive wall put up so that eventualities are either prevented or handled. Here, in particular, experience counts. . . . but sooner or later, that stuff goes into the wild, and the heartless and mindless aboriginals will flay it. It's their nature. "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek dissappointment. If you are searching for perfection in yourself, then you seek failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 Re: No Can Do Argyle4Ever13-Dec-10 3:55 Argyle4Ever 13-Dec-10 3:55  Ive also experienced the hauntingly annoying "It must be something you've done" as well Developers and planned The Man from U.N.C.L.E.13-Dec-10 1:27 The Man from U.N.C.L.E. 13-Dec-10 1:27  I want to tick two boxes. Developers should always fully test their code. The number of times I have had to ream people out for checking stuff in that may well compile but cannot possible ever have worked! Guess what they don't work for us anymore. In addition ... Fully documented and planned test plans should be in place and carried out by a dedicated testing team before release. If either are missing then problems will occur. If you have knowledge, let others light their candles at it. Margaret Fuller (1810 - 1850) [My Articles]  [My Website] Re: Developers and planned Corporal Agarn13-Dec-10 2:27 Corporal Agarn 13-Dec-10 2:27  I second that Re: Developers and planned jgehman13-Dec-10 5:34 jgehman 13-Dec-10 5:34  Agreed, both the developer and a dedicated tester need to perform tests. jgehman Software Engineer Re: Developers and planned Henry Minute14-Dec-10 3:00 Henry Minute 14-Dec-10 3:00  I fourth it. That's why I voted other and put 1 and 2 in the comment box. Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” Re: Developers and planned RaviRanjanKr17-Dec-10 21:10 RaviRanjanKr 17-Dec-10 21:10  Perfect, I agree with you.

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