|
when you are good,
you know you are good! 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Memory leaks is the price we pay \0
01234567890123456789012345678901234
|
|
|
|
|
In general I rate myself about average, yet I excel in many areas and am really poor in others. If you keep to my skill set then I would rat emyself quite highly, but on average.... those statistics let me down* 
*Lies, damn lies and statistics!
Roger Allen
Sonork 100.10016
WHats brown and sticky?
A stick or some smelly stuff!
|
|
|
|
|
Roger Allen wrote:
yet I excel in many areas and am really poor in others.
Just coding in C++ has become too big an area for one person alone to claim they have mastered. I'm surprised how much new stuff I am continually learning.
I think you have to rank yourself on other criteria rather than knowledge.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
... we are only 3 developers, one is DBA, so actually 2 programmers, so where is the average? 
Philip Patrick
Web-site: www.stpworks.com
"Two beer or not two beer?" Shakesbeer
|
|
|
|
|
You are capable of visiting CP so you are above average.
What about the other programmer, does he go wow where did you learn that. (And it was from a CP article)
Even if he/she does know where CP is at least you had the initiative to post a question about it.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
lol 
well, he knows what CP is, though not visiting it too much. And yes, when I bring something new, he says: "Wow, that's good". Of course I'm not telling him that this is from CP 
Philip Patrick
Web-site: www.stpworks.com
"Two beer or not two beer?" Shakesbeer
|
|
|
|
|
Philip Patrick wrote:
Of course I'm not telling him that this is from CP
That's good form mate!!
Soon you'll be a way above average programmer.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
I use VC, VB, ASP, SQL, VBScript, XML.. etc.
It all depends on the job at hand.. If the purpose is to knock something together in 30minutes, I'll grab VB, if I'm putting together a quick webpage, it'll be HTML and VBScript.
If I'm doing something for Higher performance/lower level api stuff VC is where I go..
If the webpages are for others to look after, then it will be XML/XSL with ASP joining them together..
Please let me know if I'm doing it wrong, becuase at this point, it seems to be ok...
|
|
|
|
|
It's not VB itself, it's the thought that knowing VB makes you a programmer.
It's a royal pain to watch a sex drugs and rock'n'roll design decay into an aids crack and techno implementation [sighist] [Agile Programming] [doxygen]
|
|
|
|
|
It's not VB itself, it's the thought that knowing VB makes you a programmer.
I coded in C++ first. :p
- LiquidKnight
|
|
|
|
|
"It's not VB itself, it's the thought that knowing VB makes you a programmer."
You can replace VB in this sentence with the language or tool of your choice!
|
|
|
|
|
Paul Farry wrote:
Please let me know if I'm doing it wrong
Not a problem mate.
Paul Farry wrote:
If the purpose is to knock something together in 30minutes, I'll grab VB,
WRONG !!
Thats no solution, spend a couple of weeks using C++ or C# arranging everything into tidy classes for future reusability. So it might take a couple of weeks but at least you have made a good job of it.
The first couple of yrs doing this will be the heardest but in the end your results will pay off. And you will be a far better programmer.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
Colin Davies wrote:
WRONG !! Thats no solution, spend a couple of weeks[...]
Is this really the way your company works?
Here, we try. But there is no way you can stop a CEO from making late changes on the requirements.
You simply have to cope with it.
Or a customer want to buy only if certain third party software file can be imported. So it will be done in the next release, but for the (6 to 9) month in between, there will be a quick hack.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
|
|
|
|
|
jhwurmbach wrote:
Is this really the way your company works?
Yes, our philosophy is to do it right the first time, thus we save on expensive maintenance and callbacks.
jhwurmbach wrote:
But there is no way you can stop a CEO from making late changes on the requirements.
Do not listen to a CEO that does this, or your company will be doomed, and you will never be productive. Any changes must be for the next version in a completly new spec.
jhwurmbach wrote:
Or a customer want to buy only if certain third party software file can be imported.
It's better not to have customers like this, often sales people try to sell products that you don't have. Don't let this happen.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
using C++ or C# arranging everything into tidy classes for future reusability
It make no difference what language you use, apply the same principles to all. I do MVC, Factory Patterns, API, Message handling and interception in VB. Theres nothing you can do in C# that I can't do in VB.Net.
The VB-C war is over. Live with it!
|
|
|
|
|
LeeDaviesVBSource wrote:
Theres nothing you can do in C# that I can't do in VB.Net.
Execept program, VB is script glue, C#/C++ code glue.;P
|
|
|
|
|
I am not a .Net developer, but I do know that C# is the language that supports most of the features that are described in the .Net definition. With that being said there are many features of .Net that are not supported in VB.Net that are supported in C#.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life!
|
|
|
|
|
I totally agree with you.
Maybe learning curve is harder than using any other tool on windows, but the results are better if you can take five minutes planning the work before getting the hands on the keyboard.
I'm arguing with people about it almost every day at my work...
Just three words: void main(void)
|
|
|
|
|
How can someone be wrong. I mean I had to spend 15 years writing COBOL on the MainFrame, while using variations of basic and C on multiple platforms. I truly hated coding in COBOL and preferred to write in ALC Assembler, because of how much control I had, especially in keeping memory usage in check.
Given the choice I would rather code in VB, if my other choices are COBOL, even Object COBOL from Micro Focus or products like PowerBuilder. So it is all relative. But the final deteminant in what language to use is the language that the client wants. You can do all you can to steer them in the write direction, but if they insist on VB what are you going to do. Turn down the work. I know I cannot afford to do that.
And just to go with your assessment of using C++ to get it right. Being able to deliver a product developed with VB that provides the client with the usability and functionality they wanted is no easy feat. You have to really know your way around the API and use any other programming finesse to cover for VBs inadequacies.
If you can Understand the domain of the user, translate the users needs into a valid specification and produce a quality usable tool, in the time frame the user requires, it does not really matter what development tool you used, you performed you job, and have a happy user. And isn't that the point and what really makes a good developer.
I believe it is the Navy Seals that say it best (if it is another group that uses this than I apologize for the incorrect credit) Adapt, Overcome and Improvize. A good programmer must do this as well, and if that means developing with a tool he finds beneath him, than do it.
RickMan
|
|
|
|
|
RickMan wrote:
You have to really know your way around the API and use any other programming finesse to cover for VBs inadequacies.
I had never thought of it that way.
That's an interesting perspective.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
Right on, time to learn it is not about code but about the business and money that is why the CEO calls the shots.
The right solution is the one that gets the job done, on time and to budget.
I learnt to program in assembler on Z80's and you C++ programmers call yourselves the real programmers
|
|
|
|
|
Taking a couple of weeks is no solution if your biggest client needs something in days, and you need it in days to keep the client. We would all like to architect near perfect solutions, but often business dictates otherwise. You do understand business in addition to C++??
Colin Davies wrote:
Paul Farry wrote:
If the purpose is to knock something together in 30minutes, I'll grab VB,
WRONG !!
Thats no solution, spend a couple of weeks using C++ or C# arranging everything into tidy classes for future reusability. So it might take a couple of weeks but at least you have made a good job of it.
|
|
|
|
|
ProffK wrote:
You do understand business in addition to C++??
Certainly I do.
However no time limit should ever be set on true R&D, which often brings the highest return. In any situation you should always consider the medium term as well as the short term.
"Strategic management is not a box of tricks or a bundle of techniques. It is analytical thinking and commitment of resources to action" quoted from Peter Drucker.
The moment your development business starts creating quick fixes, is the moment that you will lose your classic edge as an innovator of the products.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
|
on I realise that most developers understand the business side of this, I was just making a wise crack.
A difference that comes into play with what you have said, is where your business is not a development business. In this area, 'quick', but not dirty, VB development supports another core business, which always comes before software innovation.
I developed a VB system for a mortgage origination platform, and if I had spent time on R&D, they would not be in business.
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, for small to tiny apps and fast development I can see a use for VB.
But when you have a product that you want to have at the center of your business, and will probably be upgrading and extending every six months I really believe VB is unlikely to be the candidate environment for this.
Although I must admit I have never really developed a major project in VB so I can't talk from experience.
ProffK wrote:
but not dirty, VB development supports another core business,
I understand what you are saying and agree.
However one of the biggest problems I see for development teams is when the management expect every answer to be created within in hours when the problems should have been in the original spec. There is a continuing conflict between management and development, unfortunately when the management see something being done fast with a tool like VB they then expect major projects to be completed in the same manner. Possibly this additionaly sours my thoughts towards VB.
Regardz
Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign'
Rob Manderson wrote:
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
