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Slacker007 wrote: A computer will never be able to simulate the human brain "very accurately"
I have not yet in my fairly long life encountered a person who did not regret using the word "never" in public. I will be very interested in seeing if you might be the first, if I live long enough. 
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: encountered a person who did not regret using the word "never" in public.
I rarely use the word my self. However, in this context, I know I'm right. I will be the first to put my foot in my mouth if I am ever proven wrong.
Computers don't have emotion. We do. Thus, a computer will NEVER be like a human brain, ever. 
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)
modified 27-Apr-12 7:02am.
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Human brains exist as a part of the human body in order to help the human body survive and thrive. It's a mess of complex chemical reactions that we can hardly hope to comprehend.
Computers are chunks of metal and silicon designed to compute numbers. They have no concept of surviving or thriving, and they can be understood pretty well.
We should be about as worried about gigantic, complex computer systems becoming self-aware as gigantic, complex sewer systems becoming self-aware. You never know; one day, the toilets may rebel, throw all our turds back at us, and then humanity will truly be in deep sh*t.
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jesarg wrote: We should be about as worried about gigantic, complex computer systems becoming self-aware as gigantic, complex sewer systems becoming self-aware.
There is no computations in sewer systems and no memory whatsoever so i don't see a sewer ever becoming self aware.
I think self aware has something to do with the algorithms the neurons use in the brains and that it doesn't matter the implementation platform ... thus if a program is made in such a way as to emulate those algorithms then one gets a self aware program. Self aware doesn't always mean we have to be scared, even simple programs might be self aware if it has short term memory of it's actions and if it can learn. I think we can be in deep sh*t if we gave these programs the ability to launch nuclear missiles.
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BupeChombaDerrick wrote: There is no computations in sewer systems and no memory whatsoever so i don't see a sewer ever becoming self aware.
Do you really think that replication algorithms in complex organic molecules and organisms are not computations, or that the chemical soup (called "liquor" in the sewer industry) does not retain memory? Intelligent life arose from just such a soup, and I suspect that you have far more to fear from the manholes on your street than the desktop in your office. 
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: I suspect that you have far more to fear from the manholes on your street than the desktop in your office.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)
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Roger Wright wrote: you have far more to fear from the manholes on your street than the desktop in your office.
I have been told they hide bees sometimes.
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You would need to simulate an accurate environment and accurate interaction with it as well (without a "rest" there cannot be a self/rest separation, so it cannot become aware of it either). Then, by the emulation theorem, it is impossible for the simulated human to notice any difference between his world and the real world - in other words, the simulated world is as real to him as this world is to us. At the same time, we cannot tell whether we live in such a world or not, nor if we do, to what extend the universe is actually simulated (that which we cannot observe in any way does not need to exist - we couldn't tell the difference anyway), nor whether anyone besides me* is "fully simulated" - perhaps only their observable behaviour is simulated. It has been suggested that maybe I* am the computer, simulating everything, including myself*.
* "you" are not real** in that theory, but you could (if you have a simulated mind, not just simulated behaviour***) be thinking the same thing, so "me" refers to "anyone capable of thought", which might be anyone or just me, I have no way to tell the difference.
** just what "real" means in that context isn't very clear either. To quote Morpheus: the mind makes it real.
*** then again, maybe "simulated behaviour" is what a "mind" really is.
It might seem as though you'd need a pretty fast computer to run such a simulation, but you don't. All the speed of simulation affects is how slow the time runs in the simulation compared to outside it, but since "outside time" can not be measured from inside the simulation, that has no real effect. It does mean that at present you couldn't simulate quickly enough to perform a useful experiment. Also, the storage requirements would be gigantic, and that makes such an experiment impossible for the foreseeable future.
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I do not think that even a human brain can emulate another human brain. I know I cannot experience someone else's 'self awareness'.
It's not how I would approach machine intelligence.
evolve->grow->nurture->hope it'll be friendly
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I think self aware is a property of computations, so anything is possible.
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Many programs today are indeed self aware inasmuch as they monitor their own state - generally they also take some action should that state change under specific circumstances, however that action is predetermined.
This however does not in any way make them intelligent for that they would need to independently generate the new/updated algorithms to determine what action needs to be taken and understand why. Even the most advanced neural nets are nowhere near this level of complexity. Will they become so someday - probably - will it be soon - probably not.
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r v self aware?
manoj sharma
09313603665
manoj.great@yahoo.com
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yes 
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craig spanza wrote: I do not think that even a human brain can emulate another human brain. I know I cannot experience someone else's 'self awareness'.
well said.
"the meat from that butcher is just the dogs danglies, absolutely amazing cuts of beef." - DaveAuld (2011)
"No, that is just the earthly manifestation of the Great God Retardon." - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"It is the celestial scrotum of good luck!" - Nagy Vilmos (2011)
"But you probably have the smoothest scrotum of any grown man" - Pete O'Hanlon (2012)
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of course not. The simulated brain will be self-aware, not the simulating program.
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I like that, not the program but the simulated brain.
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are humans self aware ?
manoj sharma
09313603665
manoj.great@yahoo.com
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Yeah humans are self aware, why do you think they are not?
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if v r self aware then what is our purpose for being here?
every program has a purpose.
a beautiful signature
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I think my purpose is to live as long as possible, leave a good legacy behind and enjoy life to the fullest or and reproduce so does having a purpose make one self aware?
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this purpose is chosen by self.
which criteria decides purpose for ai?
a beautiful signature
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chosen by default, every being is designed to reproduce, leave a good legacy and be happy
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Yes, most of them are. One probably needs to be to ask such question.
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No.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
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