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It's really hard to write C# using only a touch screen - even worse when I am working on my book.
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits.
- Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most.
- I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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I used to navigate around DOS apps using keyboard shortcuts quite fast. Then along came the GUI and the extra options slowed me down. Having to constantly switch between mouse and keyboard just got on my nerves.
Now that there's also touch, I'm resisting the change based on that experience.
If the activity doesn't require lots of keyboard/accurate positioning there's no problem. Otherwise the user experience is less than ideal. Microsoft made a huge mistake not giving end user any option of a traditional desktop, that and the lack of user guidance/Help & Support really was a dumb move considering that some of us don't remain online 100% of the time.
Being a long-time Apple user, I also got irritated by the lack of keyboard navigation. No mouse = unusable.
I'm not a consumer in the way Microsoft & Apple would like me to be. They've not catered for traditional IT admins, producers of content. They've lost the plot and in so doing have lost a huge userbase of consistent buyers of IT goods and services. (broke the CRM)
"It's true that hard work never killed anyone. But I figure, why take the chance." - Ronald Reagan
That's what machines are for.
Got a problem?
Sleep on it.
modified 18-Mar-13 6:52am.
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dusty_dex wrote: Microsoft made a huge mistake not giving end user any option of a traditional desktop
I don't know what Windows 8 you are using, but I use the "traditional" desktop all the time... 
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Well I know it can be added with a 3rd party fix.
Why the heck should we be fighting the OS? It (Metro) should get out of the way.
I'm in control, it's my f**ing machine! 
"It's true that hard work never killed anyone. But I figure, why take the chance." - Ronald Reagan
That's what machines are for.
Got a problem?
Sleep on it.
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dusty_dex wrote: Well I know it can be added with a 3rd party fix.
No 3rd party fix necessary. Simply click "Desktop"...
dusty_dex wrote: I'm in control, it's my f**ing machine!
You should probably just write your own operating system.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Wot! a full Desktop? including start menu?
I haven't seen that version of Win8. All I got was an empty taskbar with yellow/blue folder-type icon.
Either way I'm no rush to buy it. As that would just be an endorsement (via increased sales figures) that they got things right with Metro.
Server 2012 is more usable than Win8.
"It's true that hard work never killed anyone. But I figure, why take the chance." - Ronald Reagan
That's what machines are for.
Got a problem?
Sleep on it.
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No start menu, but you don't really need it...
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Yes microsoft these days seems to be very selfdestructive. Want to know why I will need Windows in the future when it seems I could get by with a browser. HTML 5 has weaknesses, and it is open source, so Windows basically eliminated the only true competiton to HTML 5, silverlight, which would not have been weighted down with all that old HTML stuff to support simple documents.
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With all the coffee --> screen moments, the touch screen laptop is a disaster when I wipe the screen off. I've wiped out days of work... 
A touch screen would be nice, I like the idea of not having to carry a mouse because most of those damn track pads, or those little pencil eraser type mouse things sock anyway. But the keyboard is an absolute must, those on screen keyboards take up screen space and are not in any way useful for anything useful for more than a few sentences or sign ins and passwords.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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When touch screen mobile and Tabs came into market, many believe it is tedious and not required thing. But not we all are adapted to it. Same could happen with Laptops also. Depends on User Interface.
Happy Programming
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A lot of our software has a touchscreen anyway. The users wear gloves so the screens display big buttons. When they want to type they get a big keyboard (we are talking 17" screen here). Their vehicles shake around a lot so a standard keyboard would be impractical and short-lived.
But customers aren't typing in huge amounts of code - I can't imagine doing that via touch. I think the next big step will probably be speech control, but I don't see how you would type in vast amounts of code that way either.
I first thought my smartphone would get greasy and unusable from all the touching, but it doesn't seem to mind.
~~~~~~~ <;,>< ~~~~~~~~~~~
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Kinekt-like 3d OS will make touch look like VGA
Ittay Ophir
ittay.ophir@gmail.com
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I agree somewhat, but what will happen when I forget a logical NOT somewhere in my code (again) and wave my fist at the screen? The screaming abuse also precludes a useful voice interface. Keyboards are the only safe answer!
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits.
- Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most.
- I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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Forogar wrote: Keyboards are the only safe answer!
Unless you pound your fist on your desk... 
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Trust me on this - as someone who's spending a lot of time doing gesture based computing at the moment, Minority Report did not get it right.
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I do more than one thing on a computer and not all of them are best usable in the same way.
Btw, I consider my phone a computer...
So on a computer I work (heavily write based applications)
I browse the Internet (usually writing is not so much required)
I play (99.9% no writing required at all)
So, when writing is required, touch interfaces are the worse thing.
Clumsy, uncomfortable, error prone,... the list goes on. Many improvements have been done but still nothing beats a good keyboard.
For everything else, touch screen are the best way to go.
As humans we're used to point at the things we want and use our hands to reach stuff and on this area touch screens really deliver.
Be aware that we can't blame touch screen for bad UI design... if you don't like an app touch UI chances are it's a development problem.
So my main idea is that you shouldn't have to jump from touch to keyboard on the same task, that's not practical at all but still both interfaces are very good on their own environment.
Cheers!
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AlexCode wrote:
So, when writing is required, touch interfaces are the worse thing.
Clumsy, uncomfortable, error prone,... the list goes on.
For writing pages and pages of text you are right. But most of the time I tend to write obly a paragraph or two. And since there are touch-keyboards with the swype-style, I am almost as fast as with a keyboard.
Admit - I do not write 10-fingers, but with a proprietäry 5 to 6 finger system.
So, for my needs, better touch keyboards alre almost as good as real keyboards.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Douglas Adams, "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency"
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I agree with you for short texts, being emails or even small documents.
Even for browsing we need to write small pieces of text.
The problems start to be noticeable when your work actually depends on writing all day long, and for that, nothing beats a good keyboard.
Notice the "good" word there... even for keyboards, if you're really a heavy writer, paying attention when you choose a keyboard is as important as choosing a goods chair or a good screen.
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You are right for heavy writers, but that is only a minority.
I think a keyboard will become something like a graphics tablet is today: A specialized tool for a special task. Painters would refuse to work without one, but for all others it is a unneccesary expense.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.
Douglas Adams, "Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency"
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Yeah... maybe I'm thinking too much as a painter on this matter 
It's kind of fun this matter now as last week I made a speech on my TastMasters group about how keyboards (more precisely the keys layout) were designed to slow typists down.
After that and that and with this discussion I believe touch speeds users but not typists.
So we're heading towards a less typing active future which, in a overall point of view, is more restrictive.
Lets see how this evolves...
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"Lets see how this evolves.."
If consumers keep buying. I think we know how this will play out.
The current trends are driven by the poseurs who wear tech like a fashion accessory.
"ewe iPhone 4, that's so last year!"
"It's true that hard work never killed anyone. But I figure, why take the chance." - Ronald Reagan
That's what machines are for.
Got a problem?
Sleep on it.
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If consumers buy and actually use it it's not bad.
wearing tech it's a reality on several areas like cars for instance, and it never stopped it from evolving in a good direction.
At the end when someone continuously show off something that doesn't actually use he/she will feel stupid and drop it. It's like always caring an helmet without having a motorbike.
I think the trend will stick if people actually feel comfortable with it and use it, otherwise will slowly disappear or simply be replaced by something else.
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I certainly hope so.
Just for the sake of being able to get devices/equipment/software that is *actually useful*.
There's a worrying trend. Particularly at Microsoft for dropping support for products that didn't quite hit the volume sales they'd hoped for. I don't blame them for that so much.
However, they've been caught out so many times (and became complacent with Windows Mobile/WinCE markets) losing ground in the mobile space, that they're basically chasing an Apple model, which doesn't really represent Microsoft's core business. IT Pros.
Apple does hardware, that's their core business. Microsoft hasn't been particulary successful at hardware (the exception being xbox).
"It's true that hard work never killed anyone. But I figure, why take the chance." - Ronald Reagan
That's what machines are for.
Got a problem?
Sleep on it.
modified 18-Mar-13 8:11am.
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jhwurmbach wrote: For writing pages and pages of text you are right. But most of the time I tend to write obly a paragraph or two. And since there are touch-keyboards with the swype-style, I am almost as fast as with a keyboard.
Admit - I do not write 10-fingers, but with a proprietäry 5 to 6 finger system.
So, for my needs, better touch keyboards alre almost as good as real keyboards.
I type at similar rates in most of my web usage; but my tolerance for onscreen keyboards limitations is much lower. Having to look at it while tapping out words gets annoying after about the third and infuriating by 6 or 8 (it's no coincidence that 99% of the test data in the android apps I've worked on looks like "havgbsakjewfcff adfyhl lkjadfhs"). If I spent a lot of my time online watching videos, r ws wlng 2 apear sbltr8 w txt spk in all my communications a touchscreen keyboard would be good enough; but as it is, it isn't.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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