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Ron Beyer wrote: I use my computer for things other than stuff that should be full screen, I hate working full screen. I have to jump through hoops to use my computer like a normal computer.
There's absolutely no reason that you can't use your computer in exactly the same way as you did in Windows 7. If you don't like the full-screen "Windows 8 apps", don't use them. The entire time I've been on Windows 8, the only "Windows 8 apps" I've used at all are Remote Desktop (because I always used the old one full-screen; though you can still use the old desktop version if you don't like the new one), eBay (because it's often faster than their web site), TeamViewer (same note as Remote Desktop), and some games.
This was true about Windows 8 and it still true about Windows 8.1.
My daily workflow includes only the traditional desktop apps, Chrome, Notepad++, PuTTY, Visual Studio, and SmartGit, all of which work exactly the same as they did under Windows 7.
What exactly are these "hoops" you have to jump through?
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The annoying way Windows thinks I want to dock my windows when I get them near an edge...
The BlueTooth stack not operating correctly (BTStack Not Initialized) everytime I start up.
Having to purchase a start menu (I tried the free one, wasn't as good as StartX)
Having to use a Live log-in on the computer.
Not logging into the desktop by default (although this is fixed in 8.1).
The difficulty in finding anything in the start menu (yes, I could type, but I should also be able to get to it by mouse, it just adds time).
I wouldn't find 8 so annoying if they gave me an option to make it like a desktop or a tablet, but they are forcing me into using my computer like a giant hand-held device and I'm not enjoying it. Like Chris, I have 2 giant monitors and the docking thing drives me insane on my laptop, much less if I put it on my desktop.
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Ron Beyer wrote: The annoying way Windows thinks I want to dock my windows when I get them near an edge...
This is actually a feature of Windows 7 as well, and is very easy to turn off if you don't want it. See http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/gg442260.aspx
Ron Beyer wrote: Having to use a Live log-in on the computer.
I don't use one. My live login is only used in the app store (where it is, of course, necessary to have a login - because it's a store), but I log into the computer using a local username and password. This has always been an option, and is still there in 8.1 as far as I can tell.
Ron Beyer wrote: Like Chris, I have 2 giant monitors and the docking thing drives me insane on my laptop, much less if I put it on my desktop.
I have two big monitors on my desktop, and I usually have my laptop plugged in to a second 20 inch monitor. I don't have any trouble with managing windows in this setup at all. In fact, multi-monitor support in Windows 8 is better than any previous version of Windows (e.g. option to have a separate taskbar for each monitor, Winkey+arrows to move programs between monitors, etc.)
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I honestly dont see why people dont like the start screen. Are people that stubborn? It has 100% the functionality of the start menu. Do you not realize you can still click start type a few characters of what you want then click on the app you want from the filtered list? Or do these people suffer from 2yr old problems that when things disappear on screen you think they are gone forever? Or do you have to keep your eyes on your twitter stream why you are opening a new program? My biggest complaint about the start menu in Win7 is it was too small to find something when you didnt know the name. I much prefer the start screen to the old start menu. Most people I know only click on programs on the desktop. If it's not on the desktop I will get support calls asking where an app is. The start screen gives most people what they have always wanted big icons informative on the "Metro Desktop" to click on to start programs. Perhaps all that is needed to appease the start screen hatred is a more customized way to change icons colors or add rounded corners. But now that IOS7 is much more vibrant perhaps more acceptance of the start screen will be seen.
The only thing I hate about Win8 - 8.1 is the Metro File Pickers/Browsers. I felt that Win7+ finally got a good open save dialog on the desktop(it looks just like explorer with your favorites etc..) Now in Metro we are back to Win3.1 file picker. They could easily create the new one in Metro and should (I hope). My hope for Window 9 is they will have Metro floating windows/dialogs.
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I've got it in a virtual machine and I'm loving every moment! 
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I'm itching to get on but can't because of the Intel compo - I need to make sure my stuff works on a reasonably virginal tablet.
ON a side not, I am absolutely hating Win 8 on the tablet - it seems to be almost the worst mashup of desktop and tabletised gui - neither one thing nor another.
And as for requiring a restart after installing updates - come on MS this is 2013!
MVVM # - I did it My Way
___________________________________________
Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
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Windows One is the only concept that will allow you to move programs between your laptop screen to your tablet screen like it was multiple monitors on the same machine, you will be able to this across every platform, desktop, cell phone.
8.1 is the baby to every future ability
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 I like the improvements - Reading List, Settings Sync, New Mail App, New UI/UX Changes, Better Skydrive Integration and Noticeable Performance Improvements. Not really Win8.1 feature but I really like the New Dev Tools of IE11.
 I don't like - the unnecessary apps from Bing Team (Food, Health, etc). the Mail App (and many other) still failed to show toast notifications randomly. And I had to install Graphics and Audio drives manually (It's because of RC, but still).
And the most important feature / direction that Microsoft is doing is the seamless Sync. Win8.1, SkyDrive, VS-2013, TF Online syncs your settings/data between different machines. And when I reinstalled Win8.1 over Win8, I had almost nothing to backup. And now with Win8.1 and VS-2013 it is even less. 
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as far as i know - it "kills" my start8 - so i wont upgrade soon 
is this a signature ?
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I currently have no plans to use it. I don't like the direction MS is heading in. I don't like the impression I have (which may be wrong) that Windows is now catering mostly for touchscreen devices. I also don't like the rumors that windows 10 will be entirely cloud-based. I don't like the news about the NSA, so I am moving away from MS technologies.
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wut?
Windows 8 is tablet and desktop. I use windows 8 and have yet to go into the Metro stuff, as simply you don't have to if you don't want to.
The only time I use Metro is when I press the start screen, which makes no difference to me as I just end up typing what I want same as I did in Win7.
Rumours are just that, rumours. And about the NSA, if you really think that, you need to move away from MS, Google, and other major corporations. No more internet ( or mobile communications for that matter ) for you.
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I very rarely use mobile devices because I rarely have need or desire to, indeed I find them irritating but useful in urgent situations. However, I did study programming them in Java ME. I don't use Google cloud-storage services (though I upload some things for clients onto it). I use Yahoo, but only for information I want to be made public anyway. I don't use Facebook or any other social media with any personal account, chiefly because I don't like these services, but now I have another reason. I think you will find that many (especially foreign) companies are beginning to ditch MS and other US IT providers because of the NSA and I am surprised you find this surprising. I am still using Windows XP, because it does everything I want it to do, but will probably switch to Linux, though an upgrade to Windows 7 may be used for some business apps.
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Microsoft is a will be for the forseable future the only choice for company wide solutions. There is no escaping it, at least for now.
As I mainly develop company solutions and not personal applications (did it once or twice for fun only), I just really don't care much for the NSA stuff as I don't live on the US and my personal stance on the subject is, if you think it's personal, it' shouldn't be online in the first place.
I use windows 8, and have a windows 8 phone, have an hotmail account ( you kind of have to really to use those ), i have a facebook account also, use skyDrive and google drive. The thing is, I do it responsibly.
My facebook account has very limited visibility, 1 picture and very limited personal info on it. SkyDrive and Google Drive are used to store work stuff and some personal items, but for availability only. Private stuff is kept private, off web. That's why it's called private.
I get why people got upset with all that NSA stuff, but as a non american it doesn't concern my in the slightest. Privacy can only work if you think private.
Edit: To really answer you, I'm not surprised people are getting wary about some US companies due to this NSA stuff, but these are the same people whowill happily share on facebook a gazilion photos of their newborn child, sometimes even only partly clothed, where they are going and doing every hour, and then act surprised when predators and sex offenders use that same info in a bad way.
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That's all fair enough and I also follow many of your guidelines and keep private things offline. The trouble is, with the NSA (and GCHQ for that matter, they are just as bad) spying on European ministers the EU is starting to seek alternatives to MS. Considering also the US Government's history of 'aggressive economics' if I was running a big foreign company I would distinctly distrust US IT services since the door is open for company secrets to be siphoned off and delivered to US corporations.
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True, but you really can't escape some services. Because just for the OS, you have no choice but to go Microsoft, if you want to use the business standard applications.
What you can, and some companies do, is take control of some of those services for themselves (using their own email servers and such), or use another similar service from another company.
And even if the UK and US assorted agencies really want to spy on communications, like phone lines or even cellphone communications, you really don't have a choice or workaround, no matter how much you don't trust them.
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Yes, I can understand that to use and produce applications for big business often necessitates the use of MS technologies. I think, first of all, that it is better to give the NSA as little information as possible and to make it as hard for them as possible, and second that as the movement away from US IT gathers momentum, which I am sure it will, more suitable non-MS apps will become available. However, many companies are tied to MS Server and .NET and although I hear of people coding .NET on other platforms I am not convinced that it is all that easy to do so. Cross-platform compatibility was originally a big sale's pitch for .NET (I was one of the first cohorts to study for the MCP 70-316 C# exam, though I never bothered to take the exam in the end) but I don't know how well it has met that objective. I am fortunate in being able to pick and choose, as I work largely for myself, though I scarcely have the time to begin coding in .NET on Linux. I hear it has been done, but such a transition seems like a significant obstacle to me. I did trial some VS alternatives as well, but I simply have not had the time to follow this up, though one was promising. I have used exclusively JS/HTML 5 and PHP for the past few months, which are good but not entirely satisfactory and I am still looking for my ideal development language and framework. I have yet to find it and similarly I have yet to find a satisfactory OS (now that Windows XP, my fav, is phasing out). I feel dissatisfied with the software industry.
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I, personally, have started wearing a tin-foil hat.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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I heard that a lead hat works better.
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The tin-foil hat myth was started by the NSA... helps amplify the signal so they can pay more attention to exactly the types of people who don't want the NSA listening to them.
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NSA actually started the myth that wearing tin foil hats amplifies the signal in order to get people to take their tin foil hats off.
Sneaky buggers, they are.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Not impressed.
Main problem being the fuzzy text rendering on most apps not running in 'Metro mode'. Heard it's because they ditched ClearType as tablets can't use it when rotating view. How's that for user support? 
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Has MS promised that the version of 8.1 they're letting us download from MSDN actually will be able to get normal updates once it's available to the masses? I've seen enough people get burned by "pre-release means you have to reinstall the OS" in the past that I'm generally unwilling to touch it prior to the mass release.
That said, just using 8.0 from desktop only with a few bits of stupid bolted on the side (charms and to a lesser extend the start screen) isn't bad; and the ability to use different DPI scalings on different monitors is something I will need in a year or two when I can get a decent 4k monitor for <$2k so my intent is to put 8.1 on my new desktop to avoid doing a major OS upgrade in a year.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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For me: I don't see difference to Windows 8.
If I need tablet, iPAD or Android have a way more better apps and quality of them.
As Desktop OS? For me it failed to be good desktop OS.
I mainly use Windows for Games, and really looking forward for Valve Linux migration project. Once they have good catalog for Linux OS, I switch to Linux until then Windows 7 works fine, so I don't care about Windows anymore.
modified 10-Oct-13 10:39am.
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I agree. There are only three reasons I know keep a PC - PowerPoint (Libre Office is not satisfactorily compatible), Visual Studio (though I hear it or an equivalent can run on linux?) and games. Even VS I use less these days. I look forward to the Valve Linux project too. I do have server space which runs MS server and ASP.NET, but I am finding little use for it so far, since JS, HTML 5 and PHP seem better suited to my needs. I can certainly see the attraction of MS technologies, but they are not really catering for people like myself. I am almost ready to ditch MS altogether (and I shall not be turning to Apple either). I will probably keep a Windows & desktop / boot option for a while though.
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I test it on a virtual machine, but so far it's just an improvement over Windows 8, so my opinion of it, it's that's good.
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