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Yes I know. Try RDP within a VM (company restriction) and you will see how it does not work.
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-- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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Are you talking about using the mouse to trigger the charms in a NOT fullscreen VNC of a Windows 8 machine?
Otherwise, I don't get it.
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Yes, non full screen on Windows Server 2012. Which brings me to the next point, who will use Windows Server 2012 in a tablet? hahaha
Why not keep it as Win 2k8?
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me
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-- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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Yeah, it only works properly with full screen, since you need to pass by the screen corners. But if you're VNCing, you're smart enough to use Windows keys shortcuts (Win + C, Win + Tab, etc).
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Win + C in my environment doesn't work. There is a Citrix in the middle and a lot of other complicated stuff, basically for security 
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me
Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com
-- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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It's an unfortunate fact of life that the users outnumber the developers by an incredible ratio. Guess where MS makes all of their money... It sure isn't from the developers.
Fletcher Glenn
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True. But the developers are who are creating the content that users use. Without content, windows will die. Just as so many OSs died over the past decades without support from developers. It's the developers who made the C=64 survive well into the 16 bit PC times. It's the lack of developers that made it's successor, the C=Plus/4 a huge failure. I'm not saying W8 is like the C=Plus/4 OS, but this is an example for two very similar systems where the developers decided which is to live and which is to die. If the developers don't like a system, they won't develop for it. It's that easy.
Also, MS made statements that are clearly false: they promised a system that will cater to all platforms. What they delivered is a system that runs on all platforms, but is clearly focused on smartphones and tablets. Desktop usability has been sacrificed in that transition, to the point where W7 is clearly the better alternative!
MS is forgetting that they don't (yet) have a good foothold in the mobile market, and they're risking their market share in the one market where they do: Steam is already busy advertising it's own SteamOS to circumvent the restictions of the MicroSoft Store. Articles abound that claim Linux is on the rise again in the desktop market, and this time for real. If MS isn't careful they'll lose many Windows developers to Android and Linux - and that will affect mobile development as well.
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I love the charms bar - can't use windows without it.
When people ask me how to use windows 8 I tell them move your mouse to the corner.
The corners is all you have to remember.
When people ask me how to use any other OS I'm on the phone for hours trying to explain simple concepts.
I use a chainsaw for chopping down trees.
This lack of future tools may explain to you why windows 8 is the way windows 8 is.
When the chainsaw came out, people that use axes got confused and resisted to something they had to learn.
Greg Colborne.
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Use in RDP There is no exact corner. You will move your mouse out of the corner 9 out of 10 times!
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me
Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com
-- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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Hover the mouse in the corner
The menu will show gray
move your mouse in the direction of the menu
if nothing shows up on the left side menu - there are no programs open
Right click to bring up any programs app bar
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On a two 24 inch screen desktop system without touch, when I have the mouse somewhere on the left - are you telling me that having to move the mouse all the way over to the top right corner of the right screen - and then back again to get to work - is a good thing? really?? I can't even move that far without repositioning the mouse on the mat!
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If you have two touch screens use the finger gestures on the edges of both screens to pull up the same menus.
Corners applies to both screens.
If you have to reposition your mouse - I recommend you change the sensitivity setting so you can move the mouse across the entire environment.
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No touch. I did write that above.
Didn't know that both screens' corners work: my current desktop fortunately still runs W7. But still: hitting a "corner" between screens is even harder than hitting it where you actually can't move any further. Increasing the sensitivity will actually aggravate the problem rather than help it. Not to mention that I don't want to adapt sensitivity just because MS is too stupid to make central system commands more accessible to desktop users.
On my W8 Ultrabook, I've moved the control panel and other important stuff into my taskbar, because I see no other sensible way to do it. Which means I do not actually need the charms bar anymore. Which means I don't want to ever see it again - definitely not when I'm trying to close a window, thank you very much! I've been using this setup for half a year, and even though I got accustomed to the pecularities of the remaining W8 "features", I still don't like them. I have been considering to switch to Linux for these reasons, but am not quite ready yet. Still, if MS is going to move any further away from the desktop I'll reconsider.
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The charms bar is the task bar of the metro mode.
Metro app programming is the point to windows 8.
The desktop is only there for backwards compatibility.
Your arguments are based on inexperience.
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Metro is unusable for desktops workstations. This is not a matter of taste, it is a fact. This is not a matter of some things needing to be done differently, it is a matter of vital libaries not supported by Metro. Even for Metro app programming (depending on type of app) you may need to work in desktop mode, because Metro doesn't support some developer tools. At least this was true half a year ago - not sure 8.1 changed anything about it, but I doubt that. Clearly, you are not a developer, or you would know this.
Here is an old article bashing the Win 8 preview[^]. My experience so far, pretty much mirrors the descritpions in this article. I've found it to be very accurate so far:
Neil McAllister wrote: The result is a twisted chimera of an OS that can't decide whether it wants to frustrate, annoy, or interfere.
Neil McAllister wrote: smartphone app UIs are tailored to the devices they run on. A smartphone's primary input device is a tiny touchscreen. Big icons and easy controls cater to that. But on a PC equipped with a 22-inch monitor, a mouse, and a keyboard, you don't need to simplify the UI to such a degree. Metro forces the PC usage model to cater to the UI, rather than the other way around.
Neil McAllister wrote: Apps aren't why people buy PCs. Apps are frivolous. The most popular ones are mostly games, gadgets, social networking clients, and other minor diversions.
True, some people use apps for business. But the apps that help you do real work aren't the type you download for 99 cents while you wait for the subway. They're not what's driving the app sales revenue Microsoft craves. Consumer entertainment is the sweet spot.
I can only underline these realizations. They match my experience, and probably that of most desktop developers, too. If they don't match yours, all the better for you - but please don't assume we all share your perspective.
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I have no problem making enterprise apps in metro mode for desktop workstations.
As a 16 year programmer I cursed when I realised all the libraries were not there, but then realised the tasks where not impossible I just didn't know at that moment how to do it.
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I disagree on the inexperience. It is not about "it is possible" or "it is meant to use it this way". What counts is:
#1-) Is it easy to use, intuitive and clear (no, to the point that it is confusing on the dual mode)
#2-) Clear action = reaction (no, unless you are a ninja mouse master)
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me
Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com
-- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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My 80 year old grandpa gets it - never got any other OS.
that proves both your points invalid.
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Colborne: Do you own stock at MS?
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me
Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com
-- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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My 24 inch screen is more than an arms length away, because of its size.
It is not touch, but if it was I would not be able to reach it. Also, have you heard Gorilla arm? And last but not least, how much time do you lose raising your hand and using it both on the screen and mouse?
Not very efficient.
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me
Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com
-- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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My efficiency went up ten fold with the use of touch screens.
The efficiency went up to all of my real estate agents that also use touch.
It gets results, opinions beyond that are kind of invalid.
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Agreed. Many of the W8 UI features make some sense on small, touch based screens, but not at all on large desktop screens without touch.
W8 Desktop mode should be desktop mode. Charms don't belong there! These are central system commands that should be discoverable and easily accessible on a typical desktop system, disregarding the needs of a touch based or mobile system! The W7 (and earlier) Start Button and attached menu fulfilled that role. the Charm bar does not - to the contrary, it gets in the way when you try to close a window!
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