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A suburban Chicago Catholic high school has begun randomly testing students to see if they've consumed alcohol in the past three months.[^]
Are they going to punish students for underage drinking if they test positive, or punish them for not attending Mass if they test negative>
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Catholic Schools are private. If the students don't like it they have other options.
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I'm not questioning it's legallity; I'm calling it idiotic. Since they're also testing for drugs it's clear what they think they're looking for; but any good Catholic kid is going to have traces of alcohol processed through their system.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Well I went to a private school that had drug testing and zero tolerance so ...
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None of the above, because if it doesn't happen at school, it's none of their damn business.
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harold aptroot wrote: ...because if it doesn't happen at school, it's none of their damn business.
So if school starts at 8:00 and the person downs a few beers at 7:45 off of school grounds, that's okay? Students and teachers alike?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"Show me a community that obeys the Ten Commandments and I'll show you a less crowded prison system." - Anonymous
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Maybe? How many beers? Being drunk in school / at work is kind of "happening at school" I suppose
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Test for the Last Three Months is not at all relevant to the 'drunk at school' concept.
Drunk at school is an issue of it's own. Drunk last month whilst on holiday is none of their business.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Absolutely!
In that context, and considering the general flow of responses, I'd like to repeat the question - but towards those who find it acceptable, in any way, for an organization to intrude in the private affairs of those within its thrall.
Answers, effectively saying, "if you don't like it, leave", or "it was like that when I was in school" - they're the problem to which the threads title should refer.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: but towards those who find it acceptable, in any way, for an organization to
intrude in the private affairs of those within its thrall.
Is it ok for a police officer to run a meth lab in their house?
Is it ok for an emergency room doctor to conceal that they have contracted hepatitis C?
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Per your answer, in the form of questions:
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Per your answer, in the form of questions:
It's not OK for the policeman (or non-policeman) to run a meth-lab in their house. Aside from legal questions as to manufacturing controlled substances, the use of solvent in such an environment is a hazard to his/her neighbors. They are no danger, however, to the policeman's precinct or other person's place of business (assuming they don't live next door). Bet seriously, you are asking if it's OK for a person to break a law.
The emergency room MD with hepatitis C is even further from the issue: they are bringing the problem to work with them (analogous to the kid coming into school drunk, although a bit more hazardous). In this case, the condition is current, a clear an present danger to others. Again, not relevant to the issue of what someone did, in the privacy of their own home, that apparently affected no one and would never be know or affect others (at the school). The MD, on the other hand, is more like a student bringing in a bottle to pass around.
Protecting people from being hurt by others is a far cry from investigating something that effect no one - and would never even be discovered with the invasive testing.
The difference (what you do to yourself vs. what you do to others) should be obvious. If not, ask around.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Bet seriously, you are asking if it's OK for a person to break a law.
No I am asking if it ok for a police department to make, as a condition for employment, that they do not break laws when they are not working. The meth lab is a specific case of that. There are other cases such as DUIs.
W∴ Balboos wrote: The emergency room MD with hepatitis C is even further from the issue:
Nope. They contracted the disease on their own time. Thus the hospital is making the condition of their employment that they cannot contract certain diseases on their own time. And if they do contract them they can no longer work for the hospital.
W∴ Balboos wrote: Protecting people from being hurt by others is a far cry from investigating
something that effect no one - and would never even be discovered with the
invasive testing.
That is an assumption on your part. For example there are a great number of people that would claim that being an alcoholic is something that always hurts someone - the alcoholic. And perhaps not as large a set but still very large that claims an alcoholic hurts others. For example the impact on the family, co-workers and employers of such individuals.
Many claim the same about other addictions.
And a private institution, like a hospital or police department, can restrict employees. And a private school can place even more restrictions on the participants.
W∴ Balboos wrote: The difference (what you do to yourself vs. what you do to others) should be
obvious If not, ask around.
The perceived injuries caused by addiction are not limited to the individual with the addiction. If you didn't already know that you should ask around.
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No, but either one could go to Nevada, booze it up, rent a friend for the weekend, and return to work on Monday.
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Honest Monsegnieur - I only had communion wine!
=========================================================
I'm an optoholic - my glass is always half full of vodka.
=========================================================
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The real problem is knowing that alcohol is still in your system 3 months later. Just one more reason not to drink at all.
Is it school rules to not drink? If so, what's the problem with testing for it?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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They're testing hair, which ends up accumulating traces of whatever was in your body as it grows. It also offers an easy way for someone to evade the tests. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Quote: It also offers an easy way for someone to evade the tests. Roll eyes |
Exactly.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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This is a Catholic school.
You're gonna have to shave at both ends! 
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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Dan Neely wrote: It also offers an easy way for someone to evade the tests.
At my previous employ, when a co-worker was offered a permanent position, he had to pass a drug test first. He maintained a regulatively short hair style.
Upon arrival at the testing facility, he was offered two choices. He quickly removed his shirt.
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Does Listerine count?
/ravi
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Only if you swallow. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I doubt the trace of alcohol from communion wine would show positive in the kinds of tests they are performing. They are probably looking for long-term byproducts from metabolizing large amounts of alcohol, possibly in terms of liver and/or kidney enzyme levels.
I imagine this school has a worse-than-average alcohol or drug problem, and this is their effort to get a handle on it. Catholic schools are inherently private, and can set their own conditions for admittence and continued attendance. With that said, if the parents don't agree with the conditions, they can send their kids elsewhere.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: if the parents don't agree with the conditions, they can send their kids elsewhere.
Yup -- and not try to argue against the iron-clad no-refunds policy.
Why do you think they didn't announce this in May or June?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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We sent our daughter to Catholic school for grades K-8. All of the Catholic schools in our area have essentially the same policy, first tuition payment of the year isn't due until school starts.
Software Zen: delete this;
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