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There is more spying on allies than there is on enemies; for one thing it is cheaper. Everybody spies on everybody else, the point of secrets is not that others don't know, but that they don't know yet.
As a simple exercise, let us assume that Messrs Camaron and Obama are having a meeting to discuss a new US/UK Widget Agreement. These are allies, yet they need to know what the other is thinking so that they can try to have the hand come negotiations. Most spying starts with asides picked up at receptions; yet ALL diplomats say things they shouldn't. The good ones know they are being listened to and deliberately mislead. The brilliant ones make Sir Humphrey look open.
speramus in juniperus
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The shocking news was not the spying itself: It was the amount.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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It isn't that much.
speramus in juniperus
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They didn't ask if allies SUCCESSFULLY spy on the US...just if they spy.
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Well...no, not really.
If you are dusting one day and find a webcam in your bedroom, and it turns out your best mate put it there so he could check you were alright while you were sleeping: does it make it no problem because he assumed you would have planted one in his bedroom for the same reason? Or will this change the relationship between you?
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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That's a poor analogy. More accurate would be when your neighbour is in your house, he 'accidentally' reads your bank statement.
Oh, and you need to get more milk.
speramus in juniperus
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OriginalGriff wrote: If you are dusting one day and find a webcam in your bedroom, and it turns out
your best mate put it there so he could check you were alright while you were
sleeping: does it make it no problem because he assumed you would have planted
one in his bedroom for the same reason?
That is at best a poor statement of the situation. Rather it should be...
If you are dusting one day and find a webcam in your bedroom, and it turns out your best mate put it there so he could check you were alright while you were sleeping: does it make it no problem because you planted one in his bedroom for the same reason?
Or even more realistic...
You and your best mate have an agreement that neither will hit on the others sister and one day you find the webcam in your bedroom and you realize he figure out the same method as you to insure that your agreement was kept.
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In 1929 Henry L. Stimson, Herbert Hoover's Secretary of State, shut down the code breaking department responsible for reading messages sent between embassies of other countries and their capitals, stating "Gentlemen don't read other gentlemen's mail". It took them a long time to catch up in the early days of WWII, and it was probably partly responsible for not preventing the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.
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I'm an optoholic - my glass is always half full of vodka.
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The actual question was more like "have the allies ever spied on the US", so I hereby accuse them of being intentionally misleading.
As for whether they're still doing it, an EU-snowden would be nice.
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Of course they are. The EU spies on each other, so you can bet your last pickled onion they spy on the Mercans.
speramus in juniperus
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Probably. It's what I would do, too.
But it's nice to know for sure.
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: spies spying on each other! Who'd have thunked it.
Well yes, but the whole point of spying is that you have to not let those you are spying on 'know' you are spying on them.
They know you are, but they cannot catch you doing it.
That is the game.
The US have lost the game and those who have won the game are going to enjoy rogering them for a while as reward for winning.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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And let's not forget Watergate[^] which I suppose brought the spying that goes on between our own political parties into light. I'm sure the US does not have an exclusive lock on that behavior.
Marc
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In the movie Dirty Rotten Scoundrels the character played by Steve Martin was busted while "cheating with another woman". He's trying to explain to a Frenchman that it's no big deal - he says, "being with another woman is very French".
The Frenchman says, "Being with another woman, that is French, getting caught, that is American".
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As a French, this is a fantastic reply.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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I watched this televised bit in real time and I'm trying to recall whether Mark Twain said anything to the point but ... he's actually too dead.
So, there's Thomas Hardy. In "Under The Greenwood Tree", Dick Dewey, as a very young lad find's himself plying his curiosity all about the opening of a freshly emptied gin keg, down and around floor level, smack dab in the middle of a festive bender where all the local color is in full stuporous funk. One drunkard, Master Leaf, makes the most astute observation that "Dick is worldly wise" (sp) now that he's completed his inspection.
Everyone else goes off on what they see too. But fittingly, Master Leaf's estimation of the going's on behind the eyeballs of young Dick there on the floor is the one that makes the front page.
BECAUSE ... Master Leaf is the village idiot.
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You could at least supply the correct quote which started with "I'm Shocked to find out...."
Dave.
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: "'My God, there's gambling going on here?' It's the same kind of thing," he said.
It's only the same thing if you're a distrusting, no-good, hypocrite. The rest of us tends to trust those who say they come in friendship.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Just had to buy three of these[^]
Owing to the unexpectedly swift growth of my company I am now having to expand my 'Warehousing'.
It was merely a cupboard and shelf in the spare bedroom that was converted to my office.
(I tried mostly to send the products directly from supplier to customer, but with a lot of the online sales they are small items that it is cheaper to send from stock).
So cleaning out the garage and putting in the racking. At £33 each it is very cheap, but what is not cheap are the 50 litre plastic boxes.
Still, one needs to invest if one is to grow.
I have written a fairly simple stock control program, (in VB since you didn't ask) and it updates the online store stock control and the accounts package, so it is quite holistic.
I do need to be careful though. I can possibly get another three racks in the garage after these, but if I grow beyond that I will need to look at premises.
I feel that way lies madness as there is the rent and the rates to consider.
Still, not bad for a 7 month old operation that started as little more than a project to see if I could do it.
(You will note that in keeping with the advertising rules I have not mentioned the name of my company nor provided a link. Should anyone be interested in purchasing goods, please contact me via the email link)
---------------------------------
Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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Is there a reason you cannot add a link to your sig, I thought it was quite a common practice.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Oh come on, who has not heard about the not appearing red bucket story ? 
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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He doesn't want anyone with knowledge of coding to see the site.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Deffo True!
---------------------------------
Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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Be careful that your local council doesn't find out you're running a business from home or they'll start stinging you for business rates
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I'm an optoholic - my glass is always half full of vodka.
=========================================================
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Given Dave's main job, being aware of the rates and taxes is very probably well thought. I am not even sure the business is hosted in UK.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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