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1.21 Gigawatts wrote: I think the best thing is getting into areas where the software can't be outsourced due to National Security
I'm more likely to refuse to work for the federal government.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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The U.S. government hired a Candanian company to put together a large part of Healthcare.gov. Even they don't reliably hire citizens anymore.
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Testing 1 2 ... uh... 7? wrote: The U.S. government hired a Candanian company to put together a large part of
Healthcare.gov
Correction... the U.S. government hired an American branch of a Canadian based company. If you search back in the Lounge, you will see that there are strict requirements placed on personnel at these entities in regards to whom they are allowed to communicate with.
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I'm sorry to hear that. What you need is a security clearance and a job that requires it.
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Not the best news to start the week with..
The signature is in building process.. Please wait...
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: It's getting harder and harder to be a citizen-developer in this country...
I'd even generalize that to "...harder to be a citizen-decent-wage-earner in this country."
Marc
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Don't be so negative, while it is true that bean counters believe that "out-sourcing" saves money on developers and also believe that developers are an unnecessary expense that can be interchangeable with someone with any title it is also true that companies that outsource still need project managers and architects ... which interestingly enough pay more than developers. Someone has to actually communicate with the outsourced team and it isn't the business people. They don't have time; implementation is someone else's job. (An interesting disease but that is another subject) so they have to hire a doer to make sure the doing get's done.
Unfortunately, your job will consist of documenting work for others to do and documenting when and why they failed and measuring service agreements and such but ... you will make a lot more.
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I thought you worked for the defence industry and that was about as safe as it could get in that context.
They should start offshoring the bean counters instead.
As an interesting twist, I talked to a representative of a consultant company the other day that told me that they have started offshoring to the US. It apparently minimizes misunderstandings and results in higher quality than the classic offshoring countries.
In the same context: While GM moves their factories to Mexico, BMW opens a factory in South Carolina
Politicians are always realistically manoeuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers.
Buckminster Fuller
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Not sure if this story[^] got raised here but;
Company in Wales starts flying staff to New Zealand to provide 24 hour phone support cos no-one wanted to work nights.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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Wow. Awesome idea. Besides, as night shifts are usually paid higher this doesn't even have to cost the company a lot more.
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Switch to the financial industry. They've done the "outsource to India" thing, had it bite them in the ass and are doing a lot less of it. The market for programmers in the financial industry in the US is pretty rich across all platforms. Everything from webby phone app development to massive grid systems.
There really is a quality difference.
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Do you work for the fed or a large public company? In my experience, smaller companies (esp. privately held and early stage ones) actively seek good, experienced local devs. This seems to be the situation in the Boston area and in the Valley. I'm not sure of the type of software companies in the part of Texas you reside in, but hopefully you can find alternative employment at a smaller company, if it comes to that. Good luck!
/ravi
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Sorry to hear that John.
I'm afraid it's only going to get worse when the Affordable Care Act kicks in.
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Mike Hankey wrote: I'm afraid it's only going to get worse when the Affordable Care Act
kicks in.
Nonsense.
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We'll all find out in the next couple of years won't we?
I've been wrong in the past but all I can say is I'm glad I'm not a young person just starting out in life and instead a retired old man.
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My sympathies. I am also finding that right now: also considering moving away from IT as it is getting harder to find good jobs that either aren't outsourced or where they have brought in cheap labor from abroad. I went to one place and I would have been the only non-Asian developer in the company. Wonder why that went nowhere? It's stupid: we're exporting an important skill base to the third world and then reimporting to price out a pool of talent that will shrink and then prices will shoot up.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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I bet if you stated that you'd be willing to work for off-shore wages with no health insurance you'd be able to keep your job without any problems.
The truth is they'll try their little experiment, it will most likely fail and they'll be hiring in the US again in a few years. In the mean time I would imagine you wouldn't find any trouble getting another job at a place that is concerned about more than this years bottom line.
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We write the code that accountants use and it's time to fight back.
#1: Add some code to your accountant's computer that automatically downloads child porn and then reports the computer to the FBI.
#2: Intercept all accountant email and edit where appropriate.
I think it's time we start putting those mother &#$@! out on the street.
Knowledge is power - and we control the knowledge.
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Sometimes I get contacted about jobs like: Hiring senior architect, 4 mths contract and then in the job description something like: communicating with offshore teams and conducting code reviews
I always respond with: "What do you think the salary for this should look like?"
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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Here it goes up and down. Companies start of with outsourcing to (undefined) offshore countries. After a while, they step back, because mostly these offshore companies end up being "not cheaper".
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V. wrote: After a while, they step back, because mostly these offshore companies end up
being "not cheaper".
Given that successful off shoring requires very stringent process control and the ability to communicate business requirements and/or technical requirements in detail I would suspect that that lack, which almost every company fails at already, would be the cause of the failures.
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Partially yes 
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I'm considering a change in career path because American companies don't want to
spend the money for American programmers.
American companies don't want to spend money on anything. Probably why they do so well compared to the rest of the world, because of course the point of a company is to make money not spend it.
Despite that of course they do in fact spend money.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: They'd rather hire off-shore personnel because they don't have to pay for health
care, or unemployment taxes, or any other number of back-flips they're forced to
perform by US government.
That isn't true. It is just media alarmist nonsense. Most companies don't outsource. Many that do have problems with it. A few do and some even succeed. And with all things even in that there is a wide variance in that some companies out source part of the work.
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