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Cristian Amarie wrote: (build, load testing etc) are not SCM specific features.
indeed, it just is a add on feature, instead of having different software for related use.
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"Plan your actions, and hardly anyone needs to merge classes anymore."
Really? Mate, I don't know the size of your team, the type of project or how you designed your app but merges are neither a problem nor the only/main advantage of a source control solution.
Not using any source control system, THAT's a PITA 
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AlexCode wrote: Really? Mate, I don't know the size of your team, the type of project or how you designed your app but merges are neither a problem nor the only/main advantage of a source control solution.
I was merely picking on the projects where 2 or 3 people work on the same file, and then they claim that "the SCS is BS because the merge is a PITA". Of course, not using any isn't great either - I work on a 5 people team, and TFS works kinda OK for us.
I will never again mention that Dalek Dave was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel.
How to ask a question
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I'm a big fan of VSO.
/ravi
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Me too - although I found the build-deploy thing for Azure to be a bit cryptic...
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To be honest, I only use it for version control and work item tracking.
/ravi
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote: I only use it for version control and work item tracking.
@Ravi, You definitely should use it for you task management and build deployment, I'm sure you will save a lot of your time, and it also is very simple so you don't have to invest much time in learning it (I've never used VSO for it though.)
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Completely agree, VSO is really cool, for my needs it's a no brainer! I use the free version for myself and at work my company has moved to TFS online. no server to maintain, no backup to deal with, no infrastructure. It's just easy.
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Valery Possoz wrote: my company has moved to TFS online
That is great, even I am thinking of suggesting this in my company, it's just so simple.
But I am not sure how will they fill about pushing the source onto cloud 
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We at VSO appreciate this. And thanks for all those sexy, proprietary projects we'd never have got to see normally.
No really!
We will appreciate your input!
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I'd never trust confidential code to a cloud service.
If you think TFS is a better source control system than Git then ...  . TFS's source control is one of the worst I've used.
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BobJanova wrote: TFS's source control is one of the worst I've used
No offence but I do not see the reason to believe that Or, I just have less experience than you do.
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If we're talking about just the source control part:
- No virtualised branching or tagging (you have to actually copy the whole repository to the branch!)
- No merging back of branches
- Check in won't tell me if I need to do an update
- Attempting to do 'Get latest' when there are merge issues gets the local copy in an inconsistent state unless you notice the entry in the message log (which is not the default view) telling you there are conflicts
- Conflict resolution is bad, sometimes auto-merge loses changes
- No local repository (SVN also doesn't have this, of course)
- VS integration (right click Solution/Project) only sees files VS knows about, not support files in the same directories, making it easy to get in an inconsistent state
Then there's the issues with the build pipeline and half-arsed attempt at CI:
- No chained or dependent builds
- No ability to generate build artifacts and pass them to a later build
- No way to have a build step that runs an external process (e.g. NAnt or batch scripts)
And the task management system in an agile environment:
- Rigidly enforced difference between items in the task backlog and items that appear on the work board
- Inability to multi-select or multi-drag on any of the web UI
- Inability to start or end a sprint part way through a day
- No understanding of story points, velocity etc
I've done previous work with SVN, JIRA and TeamCity, and everything is pretty straightforward. For the last few months I've been working with TFS (client mandated) and we've been fighting the tool at every step. It's possible to bodge something together which just about works regarding the build pipeline, but it took a couple of weeks of work on my part and it's still nowhere near as usable as TeamCity.
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BobJanova wrote: No merging back of branches
Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by this, but I've merged back branches with no problems. 
/ravi
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Hm, looks like there is an option for that actually. I'll admit ignorance on that one.
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Oh man, you do know more than I do, clearly its because I do not have any experience with Git and SVN,
I will definitely give them a little time and learn about them.
But hey, I'm using TFS from last 2 years and I did not face any issue.
So may be it is not that bad after all. (Well of-course it depends on one's use.).
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BobJanova wrote: I'd never trust confidential code to a cloud service.
Me either. I just can't stop seeing the cloud as a big backdoor to my source code that I have neither visibility nor control of. Worse, I can't get rid of the feeling of risk that I could find myself locked out of my own source by the cloud provider.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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I've not used VSO yet, but I have been reading up on it and I am very intrigued. I wish I had more time to try it out.
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I am one of the early adopter and I like it so much for my personal use, I can easily share my code with my friends and even work with them,
please try it out it's awesome and powerful.
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I plan to as soon as I get the chance. I have been using VS Ultimate 2013 for the past few months, and I am really excited about it.
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Me too. I've been using it before it was known as Visual Studio Online and have been using TFS since 2007.
/ravi
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My one gripe about VSO w/ Git is that they don't support some of the Build niceties that you get if you use TFVC. Most notably, checking drops back in to SCC. Makes it hard to fab up chained builds and separate out your projects well. Means I have had to resort to checking in binaries that could otherwise be pulled from a Drops folder if they'd bring that functionality to the Git area.
Nonetheless, I have migrated *all* my projects over to VSO Git from Bitbucket & elsewhere, so I totally agree!
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Thanks for the compliment on the post, hopefully you found it useful.
Honestly I didn't have any Git experience either. Having an IDE built around it (Visual Studio) that does all the command-line stuff for you is very helpful.
I have a friend that works at MS and the word is that internally all projects are built on Git and TFVC receives no more funding. To me that means it's going away - hence my reason for "jumping in".
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So what do you guys do when the internet is not working? I work on sites which are phone dead zones and where there is no internet access. Guess I'll never know what it is like in a work environment.
What happens if you have super-slow broadband or an uppy-downy connection - how do you use that time productively?
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