|
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
This may be related to the recent post here by den2k88, "Q&A Abuse."
Today I came across this question: [^] by Member 11046620.
While I am pretty sure this is a question about using a ComboBox in WinForms and persisting its contents using Application.Settings, and it's a question I could easily answer (if it is WinForms), I took a look at the history of the OP's questions [^], and what I see is a clear pattern of never voting on any response, not responding to any question/comment except to restate what's they want in the most terse terms possible, and, apparently, no vote on any response given.
Assuming my perceptions of this OP's history are correct, I am reluctant to take the trouble to post code that will answer the (probable) question, and show a possible efficient way to improve the use of Application.Settings.
My perception of this OP's behavior over time corresponds with my hypothesis that there are a relatively small number of people who really abuse CP QA, asking a lot, giving back nothing, ignoring suggestions, posting frequent questions where the content remains virtually the same.
Further, I think allowing this to go on is one factor (among many) contributing to the high degree of "static" on QA. Whether this factor is as important as other factors like the egregious behavior of some frequent-solution-posters, apparently in a state of reputation-lust, or the structural problems in CP's handling of QA in general ... other issues, other cans of worms, there.
What facility could be created to somehow deal with frequent QA posters who fit the hypothetical profile I describe here ?
I deliberately do not state my ideas about what might be done, because I am more interested in your ideas, and knowing your reaction to my hypothesis; also, I've already posted many specific ideas to improve QA on Suggs&Buggs in the past.
thanks, Bill
«If you search in Google for 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM:' the top-hit is the Wikipedia article on 'Fear, uncertainty and doubt'» What does that tell you about sanity in these times?
|
|
|
|
|
In my case, I would have reported it as "unclear/incomplete" or "not a question". But considering the debates in B&S in last time about scaring new users and being agree with the arguments pointed out there, I have drastically reduced my reporting in such cases.
On the other hand, regarding your comment to my answer in one of his questions[^]. I still think it is not a bad approach. I usually give links to start from and try to educate them saying what is being done wrong and why aren't they getting better answers.
Coming back to your points:
BillWoodruff wrote: what I see is a clear pattern of never voting on any response, not responding to any question/comment except to restate what's they want in the most terse terms possible, and, apparently, no vote on any response given
The more they stay in that behaviour, the more I get tempted to start reporting his questions as "unclear" or "not a question". Opportunities have been given to improve the questions, ignoring that opportunities makes them lose the status "they are new and don't know how it works".
BillWoodruff wrote: Whether this factor is as important as other factors like the egregious behavior of some frequent-solution-posters,
I don't really understand what you mean with this.
BillWoodruff wrote: Assuming my perceptions of this OP's history are correct, I am reluctant to take the trouble to post code that will answer the (probable) question
...
What facility could be created to somehow deal with frequent QA posters who fit the hypothetical profile I describe here ?
A possible solution (I know it would not increase the quality of QA, but I think at least could reduce the grade of frustration on users trying to help and getting no feedback at all) could be to give the possiblity of a black list in our profile. I mean, something similar to a "ignore user" function.
Another possibility would be the suggested "limbo" in B&S where such users, having a certain (high) number of special reports by a (possibly limited) number of users get a different cathegory. Once there, their questions would not be fully public (reducing the "noise" in the public QA), other users willing to answer / educate them might choose voluntary to see that kind of "limbo" questions in their profile settings.
About the "non voting, not accepting solutions" I think the suggested idea (time ago) of giving the possibility to set a "solved" flag by consens of other users (high number of clicks again) in solutions that would be good enough to solve the "described" problem of the "question". But as I say in my signature, "voting an answer can be nice, saying thanks is even nicer". And this (or the lack of it) is something related to the education of the people, being thankful for the effords of anonym helpers in the internet and giving feedback. And this... this is something that can not be automated   .
But the problem I see is, there is no magic formula to solve such issues, there is always going to be people giving requirements and trying to get their job done here, criptic or very low quality questions and similars. IMO the only way to manage this is the implemented one with the reporting tools. But every person is a "different world" so there is always going to be differences in opinions, criteria, reactions and so on, what lead to a certain degree of polemics.
EDIT: Another possible suggestion posted in my message below.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
modified 19-Nov-14 7:02am.
|
|
|
|
|
We have made QA a place where OP will dump the code and don't even ask question. Its our task to ask question  (Atleast i have seen since last couple of days).
Long story short, without reporting mechanism, we can not handle QA in any any way.
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly"- SoMad
|
|
|
|
|
I appreciate your thoughtful response, Nelek !
"Whether this factor is as important as other factors like the egregious behavior of some frequent-solution-posters," If you don't know what I mean by this, you may be better off; I feel I've already said enough, multiple times, over years, on Suggs&Buggs on this 
You are so right, there is no "magic solution" that will prevent new users of CP QA from doing whatever they want to do, but I believe there can some solutions worked out for "repeat offenders."
However, I feel that structural changes that can only be implemented by changing the way people use QA (how they are even able to enter a question) can do much more ... if ... the Hamsters are willing.
cheers, Bill
«If you search in Google for 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM:' the top-hit is the Wikipedia article on 'Fear, uncertainty and doubt'» What does that tell you about sanity in these times?
|
|
|
|
|
BillWoodruff wrote: If you don't know what I mean by this, you may be better off; I feel I've already said enough, multiple times, over years, on Suggs&Buggs on this
I can imagine, but I wanted to be sure I don't missunderstand it. You and me already had our intern speech triggered by missunderstandings and preferred to clear it before assuming something that could be wrong.
BillWoodruff wrote: I feel that structural changes that can only be implemented by changing the way people use QA
Not specially, I know it would be a effort or some work. But I think some kind of template in the question posting could help.
I mean, something like...:
1) Brief description 1-2 lines (mandatory):
2) Extended description (Input box as it now is):
3) Number of code snippets needed: [] None, []1, []2, []3...
4a) If needed, place for Code Snippet 1 (language selection mandatory?):
4b) If needed, place for Code Snippet 2 (language selection mandatory?):
...
n) Closing text:
Example (valid / "qualitative" asker):
1) Problem with function to save data in the database
2) Hi all, I am trying to do XXX with a function that get the user input from an edit box (see code snippet 1) in the "user's settings" of my site but I am not able to save the settings in the database. Database is XXXX with configuration YYYY. Once saved I try to get the data back with the query (see code snippet 2) but the retrieved data doesn't match what the user input in the site. After searching the web I think my error could be ZZZ but after debugging I didn't really find anything relevant.
3) [X]2
4a) Snippet 1 (lang c#)
function XXXX
{
}
function YYYY
{
}
4b)Snippet 2 (lang SQL)
SELECT XXX from YYY
where ZZZ and
blah blah blah
n) I was thinking about to try a different approach using blah blah blah blah...
If someone has any different advice or can spot what I am doing wrong. I will thank any help.
----------
Of course the x) points could be ignored so that the question text gains in continuity.
I know it can be very costy to implement such a structure change, but valid / "qualified" askers would be able to manage it (if I had to ask, I would write my question offline first, then copy from there into the different fields).
Lazy users would have more work and maybe learn / get used how to use a "better structure".
Spam bots should have some more difficulties, since there are more inputs and some mandatory clicks (i.e. number of snippets)
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
This could be a good way to improve readability of the questions, stated that most of the trash-producers will simply posta a non-meaningful text as description, ask "I can not made diz wrk plz hlp" and dump their entire codebase in the snippets.
Been there done saw that.
So a way of limboing people is much better since the problem does not rely on the format of the question as much as on the brain of the OP 
|
|
|
|
|
Nelek wrote: You and me already had our intern speech triggered by missunderstandings
Oh, I have no memory of this; I don't know if that's a good thing or not But, please, if you ever feel you want me to clarify anything I post, just ask, and if you feel I have mis-interpreted anything you posted, let me know, so I can carefully consider your opinion on what I did not understand.Nelek wrote: I think some kind of template in the question posting could help
Yes, that's exactly the type of thing that I mean by " structural changes that can only be implemented by changing the way people use QA," and only CP staff thing can implement such functionality. And, I have proposed that in great detail more than once over the years in Suggs*Buggs.
«If you search in Google for 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM:' the top-hit is the Wikipedia article on 'Fear, uncertainty and doubt'» What does that tell you about sanity in these times?
|
|
|
|
|
Well, IMHO to address the problem of those who don't mark a question as solved nor upvote the solution (if any) I would implement a timing mechanism, such that if after some time a question that has pending answers and no further interventions from the OP the question become automatically answered (I would introduce the concept of "temporarily answered") and the users who answered get rewarded something like a half-accepted-answer. That would be enough I think.
Also, I'd be much less tolerant to those who don't state any question and continue to do so after several users ask to improve the question. If you post a code dump, on several posts and ignore any attempt made by the users to ask a question properly then you deserve some hammering.
It would be interesting to add a weight of the OP based on negative reports and time of subscription. To say, if you subscribed 5 minutes ago your question gets a low priority by default. And if you have several reports stating "Not a question", "Do your own homework" and such then your next answers will have lower weight, possibly ending in a subsection of the Q&A. Of course this "questioner-reputation" should be reversible, in the sense that if OP posts garbage, is scolded and reported and then he apologizes and corrects there should be a counter-report so that he will not have low-priority questions frol life just for one mistake.
Finally, while all of us understand that English is not everybody first language this shouldn't mean "ppl cn wrte ths way cn u hlp me plz????", because it is not due to English being a foreign language. And if the language barrier is too strong then it is better to point it out since there are a lot of questions where the grammar is totally not understandable. This adds difficulties for non-english potential answerers.
|
|
|
|
|
den2k88 wrote: It would be interesting to add a weight of the OP based on negative reports and time of subscription. ...there should be a counter-report so that he will not have low-priority questions frol life just for one mistake.
That is the concept of "limbo" that has been raised in B&S and I stated in my first answer.
I have had an alternative idea (posted in my second answer to bill), what do you think about?
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
10th kick applied.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
10th kick applied.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
|
|
|
|
|
|
gone
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
This[^] and This[^] have these messages[^] and these messages[^].
They (he?) are dumping code one the Q&A section with no question nor explanation under different posts with a lot of different tags. Plus they both subscribed extremely recently (yesterday and this morning).
Sometimes they edit the question made to bump it up (witnessed yesterday evening). I don't know what game they're playing nor what are they trying to accomplish, but I'd say they are definetely abusive - they don't even answer to direct questions meant to actually answer to them.
|
|
|
|
|
It is custom in QA to post code-dump as question - we try to teach them how to improve that via comments/answers...
I would not report them more than signing the questions as 'unclear or incomplete'...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
|
|
|
|
|
6 times the same day a few hours after registration under 6 different posts with different tags? And the most recent one even replied to himself with other snippets of code... Something smell really, really bad!
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have left comments on two of the 'questions' but did not get an answer so far. We just had the discussion to be carefully with reporting as 'Not a question' and I'm using these reports in very rare cases. But this is such a case for me.
Because there are only a few 'questions' left now, it seems that others think similar.
|
|
|
|
|
It's not abuse, it's additional information and he has no idea what to do, so he's adding stuff as second questions and answers because he doesn't realise that we won't tie it all together for him. I've sent him a couple of notes and hopefully he will sort it out into a single answerable question.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
|
|
|
|
|
I went to all 6 "questions" of the 2nd user you reported and explained him what he was doing wrong. I didn't get any feedback
So far both users have only a single question active (I posted the same explanation in the remaining question of the first user as well), I guess the rest were nuked with the "no question" report.
As others said, the thema was raised a couple of times in B&S forum. The conclusion was to try to be a bit more patient and guide such newbies on how to ask correctly.
My personal opinion to that is... you are right, they are getting very, very close to the limits. I hope once they get the mail notification with the same explanation 6 times, they would learn from it. If not... it is their call, they will have to live with the results (1st of all, not getting the help they ask for)
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
