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I get the humour, but the scammers make the brand suppliers appear to be bargains. The reason they do it, is that it's then not breaking the law. Sending a false invoice is prima facie fraud. Overcharging and "misinterpreting" the phone conversation as an order might still be dishonest, but it's almost impossible to file any charges. In theory the victim could return the goods (probably still incurring a restocking fee!), but there's a good chance that the toner gets used before the invoice with the crazy price is even seen.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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For a very long time, it's been US law that an unsolicited item received by post is the property of the recipient.
I'm not sure if this is also in effect for the (since evolved) private delivery services. I would certainly be a sympathetic juror if someone claimed they thought it was a gift since it was never ordered.
One could, of course, charge them shipping/handling/etc. fees to get it back - something that works both-ways, but is rarely exercised on the consumer end. Insist upon advanced payment until they establish credit with you . . .
(Certainly, if you never signed for it you never received it).
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Does this apply to business recipients?
In any case, the scam works far too often:
- Unsolicited: "xxx authorized the order, how did we know which printer models you have if they didn't supply the information."
- Signed for: Business are almost certain to sign for all deliveries, not knowing that they weren't actually ordered.
- Office supplies: There's a fair chance that a junior member of staff simply puts the items into storage and another takes them out and uses them.
- Invoice: If an invoice arrives weeks later, there's a good chance that the product has been used and it's not worth the business' time to fight it. Often an invoice is paid without checking unless the business has a robust purchasing system.
Like most scams, they don't have to have a high conversion rate to make it more profitable than a valid business. This particular scam is quite clever in that there's almost no chance of being convicted of a crime. Even if businesses keep the items and don't pay, there are probably enough who do pay to cover the "shrinkage".
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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My experience was receiving an invoice for a magazine subscription. It was made to look like it was payment for a subscription in progress one time, and as a renewal, another.
Definitely, as you say, accounts payable would look at the item and pay it off as though it were an existing item that was already approved (particularly if it looks like a renewal).
Still - the "come and get it if you want it back" is a good tact - for they won't do that any more than a business would care to fight over the relatively small amount.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Of course, the best approach is to make sure that staff never give out information to an unsolicited phone call (unless it's sales information, of course!) The "Can I take your number and have so-and-so call you back" is a good practice to instill when a junior is unsure.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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What happened to the standard business policy of not paying on an invoice unless accompanied by a purchase order. If the company cannot provide a valid purchase order number, the invoice gets returned to the vendor with a request for validation. If they cannot provide a valid matching purchase order number, it's a scam.
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... and what percentage of businesses have a purchase order policy. Clearly the scam works - it's probably the most common one perpetrated on businesses; ask anyone that works on reception for a small/medium business.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Member 10707677 wrote: What happened to the standard business policy of not paying on an invoice unless accompanied by a purchase order. If the company cannot provide a valid purchase order number, the invoice gets returned to the vendor with a request for validation. If they cannot provide a valid matching purchase order number, it's a scam.
Part of the problem can be that for most large corporations, small purchases aren't handled through the purchase order system. In my experience with a relatively large R&D operation the department administrative aides have a corporate credit card in their name, with which they can pay for non-capital purchases that are below a certain amount...but what they order is (like a personal purchase) put on the charge card, and the AA keeps records of what was ordered. A delivery of unordered products stands out like the traditional sore thumb.
An invoice that doesn't cite a matching PO won't be paid on arrival; if it's valid (e.g., a software maintenance renewal reminder) whoever is responsible for it will either arrange for the AA to put it on the corporate charge card, or initiate a purchase order.
And if a vendor doesn't cooperate there are other approaches. My PPOE was a Very Large State University that back in the early 1970s had leased a high-speed (for that time frame) serial printer...but it didn't work. The vendor claimed that it had no obligation to give us a working product but that we still were obligated to pay for it. The vendor threatened to sue for payment, to which our purchasing department responded "we believe that we have more lawyers than you do." The vendor backed down and cancelled the lease at no cost to us other than elevated blood pressure.
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Indeed, this is true.
If they send it with an invoice... And you are confident the person involved did not order it, I would ASK for the PO (even if you don't use PO #s). Their failure to PROVE you placed an order is more than enough for you to KEEP The product.
I have seen this scam. If they ask you to return it, TACK ON A HANDLING FEE that is larger than their invoice, plus shipping, and ask them to pay VIA CERTIFIED CHECK, or you will not return it.
Also, be sure to EDUCATE the employees about these scams.
In most cases, a company MUST pass some form of "Credit Check" before a LEGIT company will ship product with an invoice. And "signing" for the package is NOT agreeing to the terms.
If more companies KEPT the product without paying, they would have to stop!
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The worst part is when somebody else answers the phone and starts telling the person on the other end personal information about all of the employees etc, not realising it's a scam, before you can yank the phone out of their hand
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IIRC, in the 90's there was a US company that specialised in sending out invoices for the work involved in invoicing the company... 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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This stuff used to make me angry.
Now it just makes me tired.
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I've always made it policy that no one gives out any information about any types of equipment installed on our network. I've seen a lot of these types of scams, they also will call, always claiming to be from "the warehouse" or "facilities", asking about what types of light fixtures are in your office and bill exorbitant amounts for light bulbs.
Another useful trick I've found is to install a mid-sized copier/scanner/fax at each office location. Since the annual maintenance agreement typically covers the cost of toner (up to X pages/month) you don't have any invoices for toner and those that come across are fraud. (You can also tell the toner people you do this even if you don't to get them to stop calling).
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My way of dealing with them (at least in the UK) is quite simple.
Cases like this in the UK come under our civil courts system (That is none of this I have more lawyers than you horse s**t) One Judge listens to both sides of the story, goes off and consults the common law of the land and other judges, then comes back with a decision when he/she feels like it.
All the party's have to pay is a fixed fee to have the case heard.
So , I'll happily refuse to pay the invoice and invite them to take me to court if they believe they are in the right, many of them don't because they know that the judge will shoot it down.
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Bakery door opens:
Aye, yr hearth has a cozy smell this mornin' : what ye bakin', Old Man Pen ?
Well, if 'taint BugBeard himself fresh from the Spanish Main and doubloons jingle-janglin' in his tattered trousers !
That's "BlackBeard," matey !
Oh, sorry me good Sir, a slip o' the tongue, I assure Thee.
Aye, you should be sure, since aft a slip o' tongue like that 's gang agley to a slice o' the tongue that leaves a man ... mute.
Yes, Sir ! Would ye be havin' a pie today ?
Aye, I'll be havin' some of that what 'ere yr bakin' now ! How much for a pie o' tha' ?
Here 'tis, Sir, all warm, wrapped special as ye like, and that'll be a guinea, Sir.
A guinea ! What ye put in that pie: St. Elmo's Holy Toenail ? Gold dust ?
Nay, Sir, 'tis ants, the finest, sweetest, fattest, ants is 'ere been seen in these here parts. Yr tongue runnin' around yr chompers gnashin' on these ants ... well they'll feel like they're in a cinnamony heaven, Sir !
Well, aye, I got nary a bad feelin' 'bout ants, or the eatin' of 'em, and if they be tasties as ye say ... well, could be a rare pie, indeed ... but a guinea ? ... I could buy six shanghaied roustabouts ... or the high-sheriff's daughter ... for a guinea !
Sir, I suspect high-sheriff 'd give a guinea for ye to take Griselda aways 'cross the seven seas, and ne'er to see her humpback limping along the footpaths again !
Aye, perhaps, but do tell me true, now, why any pie 's 'ere worth a guinea.
I'm sorry, Sir, but, ye be a Pirate, and, well, these are the pie rates of Pen's ants.
Oh ... well ... bugger-all, Old Pen ... I'll take yr bloody pie, then.
Thankee, kind Sir !
«If you search in Google for 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM:' the top-hit is the Wikipedia article on 'Fear, uncertainty and doubt'» What does that tell you about sanity in these times?
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Heck of a build up for a Gilbert and Sullivan reference! 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Can someone get him his coat?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Similarities between webmaster and hat-check girl; discuss.
Software Zen: delete this;
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... and it didn't even elicit a Griff Groan.
I'll make up for it <GROAN />
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Thank God it's atypical.
I'd hate to think they all spoke like that.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You're all probably going to think I'm stupid for asking this, but as you probably all think that anyway I've nothing to lose.
But how does the Gas supply to your house work? Like I mean if I changed from British Gas to EDF today how does that physically work? I'm pretty sure that I haven't got a pipe that is connected direct to a British Gas plant that would be turned off and then EDF connect me up. I'm pretty sure I'd still be getting the Gas from the same facility, just I'd be paying someone else so how does this work?
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Follow the hoses attached to the rear of the nearby cows.
No ! ... not that way ... away from the cows !
«If you search in Google for 'no-one ever got fired for buying IBM:' the top-hit is the Wikipedia article on 'Fear, uncertainty and doubt'» What does that tell you about sanity in these times?
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Physically nothing changes, you use the same gas, you are just paying someone else for the administration of your account. It's all a load of rubbish designed to make us believe that we have choice in where our fuel comes from.
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What he said. I have a friend who brokers utility deals. It is just about pushing the money around. The gas all comes from the same place and is delivered via the same infrastructure (which, ultimately, the tax payer paid for).
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