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Quote: objectionable
 I actually found the new link offensive. Now where is that "shrug" emoticon 
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Its supposed to be funny, seeing it is aimed at the univoters.
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I did get that ... which is why I didn't report it and shrugged off the (only slightly) offensive nature of the image
It actually made me laugh out loud at the implied message to the univoters 
And at the end of the day ... it was my own choice to follow the link!
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At least someone sees the humour!
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Rohan Leuva wrote: Such a attitude should be severely dealt with.
Good job you weren't around to see CP in the old days then.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: you weren't around to see CP in the old days then.
So you still believe that something that was considered valid in past days should also be considered valid these days? Why? You or me not there to decide what is right and wrong. Its community. Community always runs on majority concensus.
Chris,even if he is Admin and owner of this place, respects the community and as a result,this thread has been started.Further, i don't know why you have problem having decent sign? Why not a single effort to win all's heart and ofcourse make Admins happy? Try it and there are still chance that you will be able to see the beauty of CP.
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I was just saying that in the old days CP was much rowdier than it is today, and that if you found my sig so shocking then if yo9u were here in 2006/2007 you would have been mortified!
Rohan Leuva wrote: Community always runs on majority concensus
And the majority concenss is that my sig is perfectly valid thus you have to go along with that.
Rohan Leuva wrote: Chris,even if he is Admin and owner of this place
He is, but also has to follow the rules of the members, because without members, there is no CP.
Rohan Leuva wrote: Why not a single effort to win all's heart
Because some people, like me, aren't interested in 'winning hearts'. We are interested in challenging the system, pushing boundaries, upsetting apple carts. Its my generation, the generation that gave the world the sex pistols and punk rock. Its just the way we are, ok?
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Munchies_Matt wrote: We are interested in challenging the system
Don't try this on Codeproject.
Munchies_Matt wrote: Its my generation, the generation that gave the world the sex pistols and punk rock. Its just the way we are
You should better be at home than a CP and keep your generation with you. Push boundaries at home.
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We got rid of disco didn't we?
(and prog rock).
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Hey, what's wrong with prog rock. I'm not saying punk was bad, I have plenty of punk in my collection.
Prog rock is still going too. Yes has just released a new album and Rush (not as big in the UK, but icons in Canada) a couple of years back. The Moody Blues toured recently ....
Disco on the other hand. 
Ya young whippersnapper!
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Oh come on, Genesis, all that other pretentious garbage? Punk was pure, fresh, honest! Thank god it came along when it did, it blew all the old crap away overnight!
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Quote: pretentious garbage
Oh, you mean something with more than 3 simple triad chords? The kind of thing a 10 year old could play? Gotcha, I'm right with you man, like Beethoven was only in it for the money and Bach was just a religious nut .. and Mozart: "A Little Night Music", "A Musical Joke" - what's up with that? And jazz, jazz, just a load of drugged up ponces, right?
Hey who needs 3 chords, two power chords is enough for anyone?
< / SatiricalRant>
Now, as stated previously, I have some Punk in my collection, I also have quite a bit of Buddy Holly (also fresh and musically naïve). I was never a fan of Genesis, especially under Phil Collins' leadership.
To say that Punk killed Progressive Rock is so wide of the mark. Why?: 1) It's not dead, 2) It's actually very difficult to define: Is Pink Floyd Progressive Rock, how about Led Zeppelin? (answer: it depends on your definition and who you ask) 3) Progressive Rock was not a fashion and, for the most part, was not aimed at being popular. How many top ten hits could be labelled prog rock? How many groups could really be called Progressive Rocks bands? Punk was not only a fashion, although it was fashionable and enjoyed (suffered from) being trendy. There were lots of hits and lots of bands. Popularity has never been a good measure of quality and there were plenty of low quality (and pretentious) punks.
Matt, do you even know what a 2nd or a 4th chord is? How about a 9th (a lot of guitarists don't even really know and get it mixed up with a 2nd!). How about differences between a major key and it's relative minor? Can you answer "What is Dorian Mode" or "When is a good time to use an augmented chord?"
If you can, then you know more about music than most and your comment was just trolling!
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Zeppelin were finished before punk came along. I am talking about all that late 70s prog rock crap like emerson lake and palmer. God it was pretentious drivel.
All I need to know about guitar is how to play Whole lot of Rosie b ACDC, or stairway to heaven.
(Yes, I could tell you about dorian, phrigian, mixalodian and all that crap. But I am sure its only used by pretentious prog rock artists! )
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Certainly not by a punk band! 
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Or even a good old British Rock band!
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How about the Who? Townsend's work is full of 2nds and 4ths! Yes? Led Zeppelin? Queen - they were music students? Coldplay?
There's plenty of "popular" music that uses more than the 3 "standard" chords. It may be true that they don't write music by scoring a stave, but then I doubt Beethoven did. I'd also suggest that most established guitarists could transpose a work written in a major key to a minor key. Many modern songwriters use Dorian and Aeolian modes regularly. They may not even think in those terms, but they definitely make conscious choices about using, say, D & E major or minor when writing a song in Am.
Kids making a group might not know the theory of music and composition, but their ears lead them to make choices. They probably start of by moving existing chord shapes around to different positions or changing one note of a chord (either by accident or as an experiment), but I can virtually guarantee that they move on from your basic 3 chords pretty quickly.
I agree that pretentiousness can creep in. I call it "Emperor's New Clothes" art, whether it's a potato sack in the Tate or someone chucking an augmented 4th into a piece of music (unless maybe it's a music score for a movie, used to indicate a threat), I don't get it. Maybe I'm a Philistine (pun intended!). You mentioned Stairway, it starts with an AmM9th - now there's a weird chord! Musical sophistication doesn't have to be pretentious.
Finally, I don't believe that Punk started out trying to eradicate "pretentious prog rock" groups or Disco. The kids in the groups were doing what they wanted using what they knew how to do. The audiences for Progressive Rock and Punk probably had little overlap, except for music geeks like me. I think that the "intellectualisation" of Punk came later, largely from pretentious Punks like Malcolm McLaren.
Final point: Progressive Rock is still about. It isn't mass market, but then it never was. Disco is also still around in a sense (as observed by another poster in this thread), it's just changed it's name. So if the aim of Punk fans was to destroy both, they rather failed!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Well, in fact the Who are one of the greatest rock bands, if not the founders of rock and are the group I learnt to cut my teeth on playing guitar, and uniquely, Townsend used a lot of chords, in fact a mind blowing number, played in quick sucession. I cant think of any other mainstream guitarist like him for that.
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At last we have some convergence!
The first single I bought was My Generation and I maintain that Who's Next is a must have album. I've always said that one of the things that define a musician as great is having a distinctive style. Townsend owns this style, playing lead guitar using mostly chords rather than riffs. He especially likes his 4ths and 2nds. There are others who are continually changing harmonic structure on guitar, but doing it as aggressively as him, it's hard to bring one to mind. A lot of Jazz guitarists do.
As far as founders of Rock. There are many who predate the Who that I can name, I'd only have to use Link Wray, a 50s rocker who was way ahead of his time, to win the argument (listen to Rumble)!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Calexico isn't Rock, in the same way as rock and roll isn't.
The first rock music is by the Kinks, You Really Got Me, and All Day and All Night. The Who are very close on their heels with Cant Explain and My Generation. In fact so far ahead were they that they were almost the first Punk band with Anyway Anyhow Anywhere. Just watch it, its amazing[^]
Yes there are the Beatles, Stone, Yardbirds, but they are all blues or RnB based. These two bands were the first to totally distance themselves form the Blues chord progressions and thus to me are the true founders of Rock.
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She Loves you ends on a 6th!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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Yeah, the Beatles then went into pop music.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Yes, I could tell you about dorian, phrigian, mixalodian and all that crap. But I am sure its only used by pretentious prog rock artists!
Actually, modes are mostly used by traditional folk musicians.
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Not so, Jazz makes extensive use. It's true that some folk instruments are simple modal instruments (e.g., bagpipes, the Apalachian Dulcimer).
As mentioned in my reply to Matt, popular music frequently uses Dorian or Aeolian modes (as opposed to "harmonic minor") for songs in a minor key.
The point I was trying to make is that as soon we start talking about comparing one musical genre versus another, you are one of: not knowing what you're talking about; trolling or maybe you have a valid point (i.e., don't bring a knife to a gunfight!)
My argument is that Matt's point is not valid, but he does appear to know what he's talking about. Trolling might be an over-statement, but he's definitely trying to yank my chain!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at, but I never said that only folk music used modes. Yes some folk instruments are non-chromatic and suited for modal music, and much folk music was originally composed on such instruments (flutes and pipes in particular), which is one of the reasons folk music tends to be modal, but even when composed on chromatic instruments like the fiddle most traditional music is still modal.
Folk music has been using modes for thousands of years. Keep in mind that by traditional folk music I'm not talking about 1960s singer-songwriters. How long has Jazz been using modes, and where did the influence come from? Traditional music is the foundation of most of Western music, that's been true since ancient times. And it's especially true of popular music.
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My apologies, I had read your statement as claiming that modes "weren't used" elsewhere. This particular sub-thread started by me poking fun at Matt for his incidental claim that Punk (given to the world by his generation) had destroyed "pretentious prog rock" and Disco. I think Matt sees himself in a super-hero cape ridding the world of evil which apparently includes Genesis and ELP. I'm still not sure where he stands on Yes, King Crimson and Curved Air.
I certainly wouldn't want to deride folk music in any way. I was once both a member of the English Folk Dance and Song society and a Morris Dancer! (don't let Griff see this!) Of course, most (all?) modern popular music has come from folk roots. Much, of course, has come from Afica, via the US and Blues. Jazz and some classical music can be the furthest away from traditional music. The use of dissonance and "breaking the rules" is what moves these genres away from traditional modes.
Of course modes are, and always have been around us. The "modern" major key is the Ionian mode. While simple melodies might be expressed in modes, it's subtle and, at times irrelevant and hard to detect (hard-line theorists will probably disagree!). As soon as we move into harmonies (without dissonance) we are very much in modal turf.
I've never played the Pipes, although I believe they can be chromatic. The Apalachian dulcimer is definitely (I had/played one of those which got lost in my move from the UK to Canada), but both are played using a drone (drones) and a melody. It is the relationship between the drone and the melody that most simply defines and identifies the 7 modes, although reading up music theory on the subject can very quickly cause blood to ooze from your ears!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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