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Brent Jenkins wrote: ust about every developer I've worked with dislikes using TFS - me included 
I understand the feeling, but try using ClearQuest, TFS will be heaven for you. 
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BugTracker.NET has excellent integration with Subversion and Mercurial, and is written in ASP.NET, and is completely customisable. I used it in a previous company I worked for and found it to be a great tool 
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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I'll have to take a look at that one, thanks
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Agreed. Once again, instead of solving a specific problem, Microsoft tries to solve a gamut of them, and doesn't do any piece of it great.
That being said, TFS is improving; I haven't had the mystery "oh, the repository only sent me some of the modifications" in quite some time.
I don't think the work tracking is very good, but I'm developing and don't have to worry about that much. It just seems cumbersome and not user-friendly to try to use as a time tracking tool. What I hear from the product management types is they don't feel it's great either.
Recommend subversion + Jira or FogBugz, some tools which specialize in each problem space.
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The group I'm in has been using TFS for the last few years and I like it.
Previously we used Subversion (which is not suitable for use with code projects) and had no way of tracking work.
I do not integrate TFS with my Visual Studio projects, because that's not how I work.
I use the Web interface, the command-line, the shell extension, and some utilities I wrote against the API.
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How can you use TFS and not use it?
I mean
PIEBALDconsult wrote: I do not integrate TFS with my Visual Studio projects, because that's not how I work.
VS comes with TFS support build in.
How can you not use TFS in VS and use it from outside?
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shrknt35 wrote: VS comes with TFS support build in.
It has support for VB and F# too, but I don't use them.
shrknt35 wrote: How can you not use TFS in VS
There are things I do with TFS from within VS, but not integrated with with my projects.
shrknt35 wrote: use it from outside?
Commmand-line, shell extensions, API.
Besides, this thread is about Tasks, not code. Tasks I maintain with the Web interface.
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We investigated using it for our task tracking and after 15 mins of trying to make heads or tails of it I gave up.
It feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks.
Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
I understand the complexity involved in managing tasks, but let's agree that "no" software does it better, everyone have some advantage and disadvantages over one another.
But when you are in BIG team that's spread over 3 different CONTINENTS, you need something to manage your task and then the process eats up your time rather that the work itself.
But you know that.
You have one thing to manage you task and other thing to keep track on developers daily tasks and for his billing, and them something else for code review tracking and something for you source control.
this is even more complex than the most complex net to entangled threads.
That' where TFS Kicks in, it has everything in it. you don't even have to leave the VS. code review, tasks, work items, User stories hell it even has the track of which line was added for which code review and the reviewer with his comment, what method what changed by how many people and for what all reasons.
This makes it easy, all the info in available at one place.
That's what I like about TFS, but unfortunately I do not know what real benefits are we getting from ClearCase over TFS.
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Surely if your team is spread geographically like this you should be looking into a distributed version control system. This is one of the reasons we're looking into ditching TFS and going with Git / Github.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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Dominic Burford wrote: going with Git / Github.
Wise decision.
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Ok, so TFS is not so good with huge team and different servers?
I don't know I am asking, because that's what I need to do, choose a proper source control system.
Have you ever used ClearQuest?
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If you want a DVCS tool then you should in be considering TFS. Git is by far your best option.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
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Chris Maunder wrote: t feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks.
That's probably because you selected the Scrum or Agile project template. You may want to choose CMMI instead for more traditional (a la Excel) tracking. See this[^] link. Don't give up on TFS - it's pretty powerful, imho!
/ravi
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Chris Maunder wrote: and terrible UI
What UI would that be? I use the Web UI for Tasks. It has its problems of course, but it does what it needs to.
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Have you had a look at Trello?
It's the virtual version of sticky notes on a whiteboard. Perfect for kanban or scrum boards, also works with your phone.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: It's the virtual version of sticky notes on a whiteboard
Yes and it made me want to scream.
Scrum boards are great when you need to focus on a small number of items for a given sprint.
I need to manage a LOT of items across many different business units, and some of them are long (up to 2 years long) projects. I need to keep a list, somewhere, of everything we're involved in with the ability to expand/shrink my temporal focus. What are the 3 projects we'll do this quarter? What top 3 things each department has on their plate this week? Where's out TODO list and what's item #582?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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With those demands I wonder if you'll ever find something that will satisfy you.
I'm having an idea though that I might throw at you, problem is that I'll never find time to do it I'm afraid.
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That's why we wrote Tasks 
(I'm still thinking of resurrecting it!)
cheers
Chris Maunder
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The best feature of TFS is the ability to select a task from the planning side to associate with a check in
And then ...
you can stop working on one task, save everything (windows, breakpoints etc.) work on anther task, and then save that one, swap between them etc.
Of course, we don't use these features because our source is on one TFS server and our planning stuff on another.  
See
text[^]
Video[^]
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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Me too, and miss TFS (As I do not get to use it in my company-or rather in my project.)
I miss the sheving the pending changes feature and code review work item feature.
I belive if you make the tool easy to follow the processes. people we do it, and they will do it gladly.
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Most of the answers so far seem to cover the source code control only. I'm using TFS for years now and never lost anything or had issues with it, but I have very low standards.
However, since a few weeks I'm using the TFS ALM features the first time and I must say I like it very much. Working at a company that has no other tools to manage requirements and tasks than Excel, it didn't needed much to make me happy! Nothing against Excel, I still use it, but in a whole different way. TFS ALM allows you to get your Backlog dumped into Excel, update it and publish it back to TFS with the press of a button. Bug tracking etc. is also part of it. If you like to work in Visual Studio or through the web frontend, no problem at all.
All the team members have access to it and can update their tasks, read the updated specifications, everybody can see what we are working on, with the product owner I can move user stories to other iterations and everything is updated instantly.
Didn't got to the details of having a meaning full burn down chart but it's also a question how far you want to dive into adapting the scrum method.
As a project manager my task of keeping the overview got a whole lot easier, developers can see what's next on their to-do, planning and estimation is transparent and my client is happy as he can see what is going on very easy.
It's the first project we are doing this way (more than 80 user stories) and we certainly have to get better at everything but I'm sure I'll continue on this road.
Drawbacks: Well' as every new tool you have a learning curve but it isn't too steep with TFS ALM. The tool is very powerful and sometimes you can get lost a bit in all the possibilities but I regard this as positive!
Hope this helps.
Rene
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I agree,
and have to say, that the TFS is compelling to anyone who ever used it.
I have used it in my previous company and fell in love with it, and now I cannot work in other environment. It's like going to Notepad after using VisualStudio
However the learning curve involve in this is very less compared to other similar tool, i.e ClearCase, Git, Subversion etc.
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I have used TFS at work now for about 2 years. The task/work item management is OK, I guess. It appears to be quite flexible.
The source code control, on the other hand, I find rather horrible. It is dog slow if you have "too many" mappings. Mappings are what TFS uses to associate your local code to a repository in what it calls a "Workspace". You can have server workspaces that are quicker but there are pros and cons either way. TFS seems to constantly check for local changes and *that* slows it down. Having fewer mappings helps but when you work on many bits you don't have much choice.
The branching is also strange and the way it manages file versions internally is totally different from the usual SCC software options. It is rather "heavy". Merging between branches is not as simple either.
Having used SVN/Git/Mercurial and other task-tracking software such as Jira I can honestly say I would *never* recommend TFS.
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EbenRoux wrote: Merging between branches is not as simple either
I might want to contradict with you about that.
I find it rather simple, I wonder, what might be bothering you.
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