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Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

ZurdoDev27-Mar-15 2:04

ZurdoDev

27-Mar-15 2:04

I.explore.code wrote:
I still have little to no respect for these stock questions

I agree. I've found the best way to interview anyone is to let them tell me what they've done. It's very clear that way if they know what they're doing.

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

Tim Carmichael27-Mar-15 1:48

Tim Carmichael

27-Mar-15 1:48

For my last two positions, they were phone interviews. The first was for a position working with FORTRAN and FMS (forms application) on VAX/VMS. I knew the platform and supporting tools, but I was also personable enough to be able to talk to the interviewers and present myself as a good candidate.
The interview lasted 2 hours.

The next position (current one) was for a niche market product that I had used for 20 years. Again, I knew the product and I could hold my own technically and personally. That interview lasted an hour.

For people I've interviewed, I've learned to listen for key phrases: if everything is "we've done this" or "our group did that", the person isn't presenting themselves or their work - they are representing what was done by others.

Whether someone can solve a particular problem as a junior should not be as important as do they understand concepts, are they willing to learn, are they willing to be mentored.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

Slacker00727-Mar-15 2:00

Slacker007

27-Mar-15 2:00

Well said.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

charlieg28-Mar-15 3:51

charlieg

28-Mar-15 3:51

FORTRAN and FMS? Brings back memories.

FYI: I love legacy code.

Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...

"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

Slacker00727-Mar-15 1:59

Slacker007

27-Mar-15 1:59

I.explore.code wrote:
the guy was no good because he couldn't solve a string reversal problem.

I don't interview with companies that perform these kind of interviews. Ever.

I have walked out during an interview. It happens.

You guys really need to have a sound interview process in place, and at least (2) well trained individuals to perform the initial interview process (screening).

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

I.explore.code27-Mar-15 2:25

I.explore.code

27-Mar-15 2:25

I am going to do that too if they ever ask me these kinds of questions. No doubt!

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

GenJerDan27-Mar-15 3:52

GenJerDan

27-Mar-15 3:52

And, if enough people did that, they'd change their evil interviewing ways.

I had an interview last year. I stopped the interviewer at the first question, told him never mind, and left.

We won't sit down.
We won't shut up.
We won't go quietly away.

YouTube
and
My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

#realJSOP27-Mar-15 2:05

#realJSOP

27-Mar-15 2:05

A good interview:

0) Debugging questions need to be asked. A good programmer should be able to jump into unfamiliar code and fix it with relative ease. I've never been asked to fix a problem.

1) Present the programmer with a design challenge within your own code base where a solution was recently implemented, and ask for as many possible solutions as he can think of, and discuss the pros/cons of each approach.

2) Avoid pointless brain teaser questions.

3) Ask to see some of the candidates personal code (projects he works on in his own time). He should already preseume this will be asked and bring his own laptop.

All of these things can illustrate his communications ability, problem solving skills, and general coding skills. You can pretty much tell how he will fit in when you start critiquing his code. Smile | :)

".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

Tom Deketelaere27-Mar-15 2:26

Tom Deketelaere

27-Mar-15 2:26

Agreed on all but:

John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
bring his own laptop

I don't have a laptop Smile | :)

, I know I'm weird but I still prefer a desktop way over a laptop Smile | :)

Tom

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

#realJSOP27-Mar-15 2:38

#realJSOP

27-Mar-15 2:38

The only reason I have a laptop is for interviews. I would go so far as to say that it's an essential tool of any programmer.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

Tom Deketelaere27-Mar-15 2:49

Tom Deketelaere

27-Mar-15 2:49

Well I do have a laptop from work, but I never use it outside off work.

And I have like 3 or 4 old one's at home but I'm pretty sure none of them are still booting let alone run VS.

I haven't needed a personal laptop in a while, and as long as I don't need it I'm not going to buy it Smile | :)

Tom

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

Kevin Marois27-Mar-15 3:03

Kevin Marois

27-Mar-15 3:03

Excellent answer.

I routinely offer to send/show my personal projects, for the very reason you mentioned. It lets them know how I think and code, and moreover, it tells them that I can analyze problems and design complete solutions - not just write code.

If it's not broken, fix it until it is

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

jgakenhe27-Mar-15 3:31

jgakenhe

27-Mar-15 3:31

Yes it is a good idea. I developed my own person website back around 2000 and used it for the next 10 years to market myself. I got one job in 2004 because I created tabs on a page and also had a portfolio page.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

jschell27-Mar-15 12:05

jschell

27-Mar-15 12:05

John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Ask to see some of the candidates personal code (projects he works on in his own time).

I work for a living and have always done so.

The last time I did code for myself I had never been paid to program.
Since then the code I throw has always belonged to someone else.

Which mean I have absolutely no right to show it to anyone else.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

#realJSOP31-Mar-15 1:32

#realJSOP

31-Mar-15 1:32

I have also always worked for a living, but I spend a lot of time writing my own stuff. Occasionally, I develop some code for an employer and after getting permission, write an article about the techniques I developed in pursuit of the final code. I've found that most employers are fine with technology sharing unless the code in question is highly proprietary (exposes trade secrets, or is so unique and innovative as to expose the company to competitive loss).

I am honestly amazed at the number of programmers I've personally encountered that DON'T write code as a hobby at home. IMHO, it shows a lack of commitment to the art of development, but I also understand the necessity to separate private life from vocational pursuits. I'll always be more interested in hiring people that have a demonstrable passion for the act of writing code.

For my current job, I was interviewed by a PM who had no idea what to ask. No programming questions at all, just explanations of the code I worked on in the past. It was kind of a strange interview.

".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

jschell31-Mar-15 13:10

jschell

31-Mar-15 13:10

John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I've personally encountered that DON'T write code as a hobby at home. IMHO, it shows a lack of commitment to the art of development,

For about 20 years I worked 60+ hour weeks and, where possible, would take vacation time as a bonus check rather than taking actual time off.

I know people who have worked more hours a week than that. For years.

My "hobby" was in fact writing code, but doing so for my employer.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

RJOberg27-Mar-15 3:17

RJOberg

27-Mar-15 3:17

I had that sort of interview for my first job out of school. About 50 programming questions and an hour to do them, it reminded me of a test in Comp Sci 101. Breezed through those and then had a short face to face interview with the team manager. The guy had been a DBA back when he started so had an idea of what questions to ask and what the reason and concept was behind the answer he wanted. They could have skipped the entire first bit and just go with the interview. Would have saved everyone's time. I can teach someone the syntax of a language. I cannot teach someone how to approach a problem or think for themselves.

After a number of years in, I tend to be able to get a better feel for someone's ability by asking questions about how they would approach a problem instead of what is the solution for that same problem. If your solution is overly complex, your code tends to be as well and will be a beast to maintain once you are gone. If you won't even attempt to solve think about it then you will be here on CodeProject and other various boards asking people how to do your work.

In my mind, how a developer thinks and learns is much more important than what they already claim to know.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

jgakenhe27-Mar-15 3:23

jgakenhe

27-Mar-15 3:23

This is a very important topic. One of my first IT interviews for an entry level position, I was asked the same question and didn't know that answer and no I didn't get the job. But subsequent interviews, I was ready for the Reverse String question.

An interview says a lot about the company. Today, if someone interviews me and have nonsense or irrelevant questions pertaining to my level or the level of the job, then I will not take the job. Additionally, it makes the company look bad. Why would I want to work for a backwards company?

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

I.explore.code27-Mar-15 3:59

I.explore.code

27-Mar-15 3:59

Oh well, our interview process is pretty shambles, the senior developer that we had for the last 12 years (he's recently quit) was hired because back then he was the only one who turned up for the "interview" and he was interviewed by, shall we say, less than a programmer person. That's no blinkin' way to interview someone for a highly involved and skilled job!

This guy had an air of hollow superiority over every one else and was extremely condescending but he ended up working for 12 years and built a system that only he had any clue about. He had a horrible programming style and was routinely in habit of creating 100 line methods. May maintainability rest in peace!

Its clearly a proof of severely flawed hiring process that we have, funnily enough, prior to my interview at my current workplace more than 4 years ago, I was given a programming assignment that I had to complete and bring in and then walk the devs through my thinking process and understanding that eventually led to a solution. The focus wasn't on if I can solve the problem correctly but whether or not I can come up with approaches to solve the problem and convey my ideas to others. Why couldn't we have done something similar with this guy? I agree interviewing is hard but asking these stock questions is just plain lazy and condescending IMO.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

R. Giskard Reventlov27-Mar-15 4:37

R. Giskard Reventlov

27-Mar-15 4:37

I ask 5 (non-technical) questions. If they can't get through those then I know I wouldn't hire them as, no matter how good they may well be, they are not a cultural fit and are unlikely to fir into the team or stay very long.

You can be the moist brilliant developer in the world but if you don't fit on with the company culture, you won't last and that is a waste of everyone's time.

Re: Programming Questions in an interview or "The Lazy Interviewer Syndrome"

jschell27-Mar-15 11:59

jschell

27-Mar-15 11:59

I.explore.code wrote:
we had a candidate over for a "Junior Developer"...What is your opinion on this?

Depends on exactly what "junior developer" means.

A developer with no experience should not be expected to know anything about professional programming. A non-senior level developer, say with an expectation of 2-4 years of experience, should know something about programming.

I.explore.code wrote:
not having done a job long enough,

Say what? You asked a candidate in for an interview knowing that they did have enough professional experience for the minimum job requirement?

That is unprofessional on the companies part.

I.explore.code wrote:
Now that in my opinion is the failure of the interviewer

Sort of.

Fact of the matter is to correctly prepare to give an interview in a way that objective criteria can be met it takes quite a bit of preparation. Anything other than that is just developers deluding themselves into thinking that they can actually evaluate technical merit in a short interval of time. Moreover any individual might overall provide benefit to a team while in some technical way being less than proficient.