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Cornelius Henning wrote: Windows 10 does not have the vulnerability that is exploited by that particular virus
I'm gonna have to call you out on this, not for the sake of telling you you're wrong, but for the sake of others who might read this claim and think they're inherently protected.
There was an SMB patch for Windows 10 that first came out in March that took care of this problem. The Creators Update for Windows 10 that came out in March (which brings its build number to 1703) was already patched out of the gate so it was never vulnerable, but if you are on 1607, 1511 or 1507 and haven't installed any of the cumulative updates that predate that, that machine is vulnerable.
See the table here. Notice the section on Windows 10.
Also see this, which describes a couple of methods to verify whether a machine is properly patched or not. Notice the sections that cover Windows 10 TH1 and 2 ("Threshold" = 1507 and 1511) and RS1 ("Redstone" = 1607).
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It's a complicated one...
Just because it's free, doesn't mean it's good: in the last century you could get free wine if you went along to a time share meeting. That didn't mean it was a good idea to go at all!
Win 10 splits opinion, probably because it's something of a mess. MS decided that they wanted the mobile market, so they produced a "mobile friendly" OS - and made it the only version available for desktops and mobiles. Trouble is, what they hit with a hammer to try and force it to be mobile hurt it as a desktop OS, and what they left to support desktop users hurt it as a mobile OS - try it on a tablet and you'll see what I mean; it's not not "together" as a mobile OS in the same way that Android (and even iOS) are (the soft keyboard alone is a PITA which eats half your screen!)
And when you compare it's schizophrenia with Win7 which was "together" as a OS it just looks worse and can be very frustrating for "normal" users. Try working with the Settings app and you'll soon find yourself back at Control Panel!
Don't get me wrong: I'm using it, both desktop and on the WookieTab. But as a desktop OS user experience, Win 7 was better. And as a mobile OS, it's far, far short of Android in many ways.
What they should have done is taken a deep breath and designed a new OS for mobile, without all the legacy support they have to have in desktop. It might even have got them significant mobile sales...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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You do raise some good points, thanks!
However, I believe the "ugliness" stems from Microsoft's own guidelines for the visual appearance of productivity apps. Their guidelines make for some very bland and uninteresting users' interfaces. Personally, I do think they take the UI guidelines too far, but that is not reason enough to shoot down the entire OS.
I have been using 10 for more than a year now, and on the whole I am happy with it.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Cornelius,
You are right on some points overall.
But if you are asking WHY I tend to Hate MSFT Windows, et al. My BIGGEST Complaints...
1) NOTHING they promise you will be supported in the future (16 bit C++, Silverlight, etc)
2) They PREVENT software (Office 2000) from installing on newer OSes... Forcing Upgrades
3) You like VS 2017. Okay, I have some code for a client, all done in VS about 9 years ago.
He called, He would like a handful of simple changes. Without MY ORIGINAL version of VS,
and using this new wonderful 2017 tool... Can you even recompile it?
Every VS Serious developer I know has LITERALLY 3 versions of VS on their machine for this
reason. Not 1 version.
4) I went from Windows XP to Windows 7. I love Windows 7. Windows 8 came on my wifes computer.
I wish I could have you spend the time it takes to show her how to do things.
For one, I would have ASSUMED RIGHT CLICKING on a blank panel would let you go to properties,
and change the configuration of that panel. NOPE.
5) They keep moving the standards. Right click gets dropped when I am not in a touch screen?
What they did to Office Toolbars is pathological. These Ribbons, Ugghhh.
and then they SHOVE it down your throat. I used to be able to support my clients by launching a GoToMeeting, sharing their screen, ASKING for keyboard/mouse control, and then install software, etc.
But windows 8 came out, and Elevated Prompts don't get sent to my screen. My clients have to sit there and okay everything or click on buttons for me. Without an EASY work around.
I now PAY for TeamViewer so I can switch to that, because, IMO, Microsoft broke how things work.
Most of my clients have been with me for 20years. You have no idea how many headaches I get because MSFT has changed rules about writing data to the program directory, or competing software labeled as unsafe to install (LOL).
Finally, there are problems with ALL OSes... They are imperfect because we are all growing and learning. But if the OFFICE document format was truly inter-operable, I believe MSFT would lose about 30% of its market share of the desktop. (So, I like the products in general. I hate the way they move forward and force everyone to throw their investments out!)
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OriginalGriff wrote: Trouble is, what they hit with a hammer to try and force it to be mobile hurt it as a desktop OS
OriginalGriff wrote: What they should have done is taken a deep breath and designed a new OS for mobile,
Or, if they'd just done a "responsive" UI that knew you were running a desktop and didn't want the Mobile features then that even would've helped a lot. However, I believe they wanted to force people to the new UX because they knew there would be people who would never change and that would force them to to do more work in perpetuity.
Also, they know, "Hey, if we anger most of the people most of the time, there will still be some of the people who aren't angered. And, not all of the people are angered all the time."
It's a win! 
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Well, maybe.
But what they ended up with is a mobile OS that is too big, too slow, too greedy: the Wookie tab is dual boot Win 10 & Android. The whole Android OS and data partition is 5GB - Win 10 alone is 20GB and runs noticeably slower than Android on the same hardware. Bear in mind that Android will run happily in 1 GB of RAM and Win 10 ... well let's be charitable and say it will walk in 1 GB ...
And that's the whole problem: it's not a desktop OS any more, but it's not a mobile OS either. I'm not sure what it is, but that's probably a lot of why most users just don't like it. If it can't decide what it wants to be, how are users supposed to to? 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Great points! Very interesting.
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raddevus wrote: Or, if they'd just done a "responsive" UI that knew you were running a desktop
Or even one more step further: How about a UI that knows what kind of a system it's running on and adapts automatically, including control size and layout.
raddevus wrote: they wanted to force people to the new UX
The whole misery started before Vista, with Longhorn. They were desperately looking for something to replace the even then already aging Win32 API. Now it's more than 10 years later and they still have not accomplished anything except trying everybody's patience. The only accepted OS since XP was Win 7, which they needed quickly and there was no time to try some grand new ideas. They will never learn.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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CDP1802 wrote: They will never learn
Yeah, for a long time I could see that Microsoft was two companies.
1. The Suits
2. The Engineers
There was a time when they were doing absolutely nothing. Just sitting around watching the smart phone / pad market grow. I learned that Microsoft had a patent where they get something like $8 from every Android device created. So they ended up making more from the licensing* than they made entirely from Vista -- but with no overhead!!!
At that point the suits had almost entirely taken over.
Engineering was doing nothing. I do think Nadella has made Microsoft remember that it is a company that creates something. But I believe they probably lost a lot of good engineers in that time.
* One of the many articles about this from back in '13 : Microsoft is making $2bn a year on Android licensing - five times more than Windows Phone | ZDNet[^]
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OriginalGriff wrote: MS decided that they wanted the mobile market, so they produced a "mobile friendly" OS - and made it the only version available for desktops and mobiles
What you're describing here is Windows 8. They realized they took it too far, and took it down a notch with Windows 10. But it's still far from..."cured"...from that affliction.
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No, I don't think they did. They got another hammer, and nailed some of the Win 7 bits back on rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: rather than listen to what people were saying and admitting a mistake.
That is the root point.
I am aware that is impossible to satisfy every people, but hey... at least read the comments, analyze them as much objective as you can and do the best out of them. That would spare them and us (users) a lot of problems.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
modified 27-May-17 15:59pm.
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I wasn't implying Windows was "back to normal". There's still so much I'd rather see them undo.
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Cornelius Henning wrote: will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority
Count me in. I've been on 10 for almost 2 years and consider it to be the best OS I've used to date. (now if I could just get a grip on the unattended restarts)
I've made a great career using MS technologies! I may complain occasionally, but acknowledge that overall these technologies (for the most part) have improved over the years while costing less or even becoming free.
Cornelius Henning wrote: all the complaints and whining about Microsoft and Windows that we see here on CP
This imho is all due to the number of devs using MS/Windows over other OS's...unless I'm to assume that the 'others' are so good and problem free that there's nothing to complain about. At any rate, it would make a great CP survey...primary OS for development?
I'd predict Windows at 85% or so but I'm just guessing. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I would be very interested in the results of the survey you suggest.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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kmoorevs wrote: I've made a great career using MS technologies! I may complain occasionally, but acknowledge that overall these technologies (for the most part) have improved over the years while costing less or even becoming free.
Me too!
/ravi
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Cornelius Henning wrote: Home users and hobbyists can get a totally free copy of Visual Studio 2017,
And Xamarin, to boot! 
/ravi
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That's a weird name for a cheese.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Windows is still only a consumer-grade operating system.
The best operating system is OpenVMS -- but I don't use it for email and Web browsing.
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Quote: The best operating system is OpenVMS
Hmmmm. I must look into this.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Some people here whine so much I think they are fermenting.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Whine - wine - ferment - I'm sure Griff can come up with some pun for TOTD using these! 
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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To be pedantic what's called "microsoft windows" is not an OS,
the package delivered as "microsoft windows" (3.1 .. 10) is an OS with: a built-in window manager and internet browser to name just a couple of non OS items. Which is OK, if you could choose to replace or use another similar item - but with windows you cant. (not easily).
One of the advantages of unix and it's offspring is that it is just an OS with implementation dependant hardware drivers (and the ability to add more necessary hardware drivers.)
Don't like the look of the windows: you can choose another (and most are independently very configurable to very different looks, even how the mouse works and when windowed apps become active...),
don't like a particular internet browser: you can choose another without having baggage of something you are never going to use built in and loaded into memory.
don't like the console (shell) ..., don't like the control panel ...
It would be really nice if ms gave us an os without the non-os items so tightly bolted in.
Instead they are in fact going the opposite direction: now they are forcing the choice of browser so that it's difficult (and they are hinting soon to be impossible) to choose another even if you can live with non used crap loaded up.
How long before they take away the old style windows mode and force it to be full time in that ugly metro (or whatever it's going to be called tomorrow) mode? (Don't doubt me, that will come.)
windows is a good os, the non-alterable crap bolted on that's the killer.
Nobody complains say linux is ugly (difficult yes, but not ugly) because the interface, the look, the way it acts is full configurable to how you want it.
All an OS is and should be is a callable software interface to the hardware.
Sin tack
the any key okay
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You are voicing the opinion of the silent majority, positive rarely gets a mention whereas negative bleats and howls all over the internet.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Now you got to be strong
Cornelius Henning wrote: I have had a few glitches since upgrading our home machines to 10, but in total I am very happy with it and will never go back to 7 or 8.1. I believe this is the opinion of the silent majority and "Microsoft Bashers" are just a noisy minority that doesn't have any real influence at all!
The same minority that did not like Vista, also the same that strangely left Win 7 alone and then rejected Win 8 again. See a pattern? For ten years Mickeysoft has treated us to one failure after another and, to answer your questions, don't want their stuff anymore even if it's 'free'. And, for my part, I'm sick and tired of investing time and money into yet another failure.
Win 10 is not a failure, you say? That's kindof old news.[^]
By the way, do you really think that that buggy memory hog is 'arguably the world's premier IDE'? Really? VS 2008 was the last I ever used and have been using a free alternative ever since. I'm missing one debugger feature, but that's all. No need to put up with Mickeysoft's bloatware, 'free' or not.
And you wanted to know why some people don't install the 'free' updates? Because you don't know these days what else they try to install without asking. You don't only get 'free' updates, you also get Mickeysoft's current agenda along with them. I'm sure they only want our best, which seems to be our money.
After 10 years of such desasters, I think they will not get it anymore. Mickysoft has jumped the shark and nuked the fridge years ago and will just get crazier every time they move on to their next failure. Just wait what happens when they finally drop Win 10 for the next 'it's the future!' grand idea they try to ram down our throats.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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