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It's like Beretta vs Glock. Aftermarket for Glock? Basically everyone and their dogs. Aftermarket for Beretta? Only Beretta, low to nigh choice, Italian quality (N/A).
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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I think one can be neither "in love with," nor, "in hate with," Microsoft, or other mega-tech companies ... but, also, not emotionally indifferent.
To make this more concrete: I can say that I frequently marvel at the depth and power of MS' software tools, like Visual Studio, and the tools in its ecosystem, like ReSharper, PostSharp, etc. But, of course I get frustrated by the speed-bumps you go over putting these tools to use. As someone who "goes way back" in software development, I know these tools are fantastic compared to what we had even ten years ago.
I find it useful to resist "personifying" an entity like MS, to avoid assuming it's like a "someone" who makes mistakes: if I were to analogize MS and person, I'd say it's a "somemany" with multiple personalities, some of whom are schizoid, and most of whom are not aware of each other ... and, this "person's" mistakes are colossal blunders 
A state of benevolent equanimity is, of course, fragile, and, may require a purgative rant to release spew ... when broken.
«Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye.» Miss Piggy
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I hate them because I fell in love with WPF only to have them not support or push it.
I hate them because I use Windows Media Center on all TVs in my home and I can no longer get guide data.
I hate them because of their extreme push to migrate to Windows 10.
I hate them because both of my parents computers automatically installed Windows 10 and I had to spend the time reverting it.
I hate them for forcing Cortona, Edge, and all their own applications down my throat.
I hate them for Internet Explorer. My only UI bugs in web apps start with "1. Open IE...".
I hate them for being so late to the party on mobile. Windows Phone was great to develop for. And they blew it.
With all that said... I still run Windows. I still love Visual Studio.
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gardnerp wrote: I hate them because of their extreme push to migrate to Windows 10.
Just curious, would you rather they didn't want people to get their latest product?
gardnerp wrote: I hate them for forcing Cortona, Edge, and all their own applications down my throat.
How do they force Edge down your throat (or any other app for that matter). I think many of us are glad IE or Edge comes on a new version of Windows so that we can download Chrome or FireFox. Why have they never forced an app down my throat? What are you doing differently than me?
gardnerp wrote: I still love Visual Studio.
And what I love about Microsoft is that you can use Visual Studio to fix every problem you mentioned here. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Yes, people should update. When they are ready. When they know their software will continue to work. The support for Windows 7 runs through 2020. There was no need to be this aggressive with it. Even Microsoft admitted[^] this was bad practice so I don't think I need to justify my opinion any further here.
How do they not force their products down your throat. Edge is the default and other apps can no longer make themselves default. You have to override it. Run any search from Visual Studio or your start menu. It uses Bing. No matter what your default search is. You can't even disable Cortona. Do it, and run Wireshark. It still sends packets of data behind the scenes and cannot be disabled.
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gardnerp wrote: Even Microsoft admitted[^] this was bad practice
To save face, not because they believe it, IMO.
gardnerp wrote: so I don't think I need to justify my opinion any further here.
You're not on trial here. I'm just some nobody on the internet who asked for your opinion. Just looking for some dialog.
gardnerp wrote: You have to override it.
You mean when I launch Chrome and it asks me if it can be the default browser and click a single button to do it? No offense, but that's hardly something hard for me to do.
gardnerp wrote: Run any search from Visual Studio or your start menu. It uses Bing.
Not sure what type of VS search you do but I only search within my code and that uses VS's search, not Bing. And I never search through the start menu. I always have chrome open and one of the tabs is google. It's just as easy to type it there.
gardnerp wrote: It still sends packets of data behind the scenes and cannot be disabled.
So? How does it affect you? Why does it bother you?
Do you get furious about what tires come on a brand new car? Are you upset that they forced a certain brand of tire on you when you bought the car? Are you upset that it takes effort to change the default tires?
I'm not trying to be rude but I feel like every complaint people have against Microsoft are empty because companies have been doing the same exact thing forever and we're OK with it in every other single product we buy but for some reason we see software as needing to behave differently. I'm genuinely curious why that is.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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For what it's worth:- I
![Heart | [heart]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/love.gif) MS (it's given me a pretty decent career and lots of joy).
- I Android's architecture (and build Android apps).
- I Apple's UX (I own an iPod and fell in love with the iPhoto desktop UI).
No opinion on Linux, only because I haven't used it in eons.
/ravi
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote: No opinion on Linux,
If you want to spend time finding drivers and researching how to do simple things then it is great. Or if you want to contribute to building the OS, it is great. If you are in no mood to have to learn basic things all over then it is not worth it. I have Ubuntu and will gladly pay the money to get Windows next time I buy a PC. Free was not worth it in this case.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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My experience differs. I am not a fanboi of any system. I am running Linux on my 4th generation workstation, started some 10-15 years ago. No problems with drivers and no manufacturer downloaded drivers. This can certainly be problematic for laptops though. If you worked back in DOS/W3.1 days, not all that hard to pick up. I am still running an older version of Mint (17.1). Easy to keep current (doesn't sneak up on me) and never crashes (neither do any of my W7-10 VM's).
I run Windows XP, 7, 10 in virtual machines. Do my programming, mostly, in W10 with VS 2015 and 2017, even still do some FoxPro stuff in XP. Nobody in their right mind would run my stuff on hardware systems.
I like them all. I struggle with them all. I run the W10 VM's on both Linux and on a MBP, I swear at any of them when I struggle, blaming them for my shortcomings. Who doesn't? Don't hate anything or any computer/program companies. Prefer some, avoid some. If I don't like them, I move on.
We run several Windows systems, virtual, on ESX. Some servers, some desktops. All of them baffle me at times. 
Arguing with a woman is like reading the Software License Agreement. In the end, you ignore everything and click "I agree".
Anonymous
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I earn my salary using windows and visual studio.
Nuff said!
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In fairness, I think you can divide the hate into two separate camps:
1) Hatred for Windows (yes I know they have other software, but most of the hate is directed at Windows itself)
2) Hatred for the company.
Full disclosure: I'm primarily a Linux Mint user although I do have a Windows 7 partition at home and use Windows Server 2008R2 at work.
Most of the hate towards Windows is based on their continual redesign. People hate change but they hate change for the sake of change even more. From comments that I have seen, most hated is the take-it-or-leave-it attitude of Microsoft to many users that are stuck with the Windows eco-system for reasons of legacy software and if they had a more stable alternative would leave-it in a heartbeat. Many organisations *know* they are stuck with Windows and would rather that Microsoft didn't keep rubbing their collective faces in it. What they don't seem to realise is that if you write and sell software that people love, they will buy it in droves. You don't have to blackmail them: a lesson that the big media companies would do well to learn.
Secondly, the company has some rather unsavoury history regarding their competitors and their re-sellers. Much of that corporate attitude is still evident to this day. Witness for example, the collusion with motherboard manufacturers to produce hardware that will *only* run Windows by design under the trojan horse of "increased security".
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"Hate" is such a strong word, best reserved for Slashdot.
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Caveat I make a living developing WPF apps.
We are currently looking at moving our last mile to office 365 and I'm terrified. Having spent the last 25 years developing on the windows platform MS have a track record of f***ing up the environment, especially when office is in the development stack.
And they will never be forgiven for the demise of Silverlight!!!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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We are currently having an unusual-for-Wales weather event: it not only isn't raining, but you can see the sky, a big yellow hot thing, and no clouds; plus the temperature has risen to the "sticky" level.
So yesterday I turned on the air-con in the car, and it was useless. The air it was blowing was a few degrees below the temp inside the car, which was best described as "sweaty". 
So I just got back from having it re-gassed, and wow! I'm thinking of moving my bed in there for the night, it's so cool and dry!
Now, any suggestions on how to get my desktop and monitors in there? 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: So I just got back from having it re-gassed
Lucky you. I had my car's AC die on one of the hottest days of year so far last week, and it turned out the compressor needed to be replaced. $800 later...
Marc
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Ouch! I will admit I was worried it might be the compressor.
But I'll take a £30 / $40 re-gas over a new compressor any day ... and mine is "only" £450 / $600 plus labour - not too bad for a Mercedes part.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Living with that right now in South Florida... Mechanic said I needed a new compressor and quoted me $600+. I laughed and said the old beater isn't even worth that much anymore.
Time to price out a new one!
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Either that, or replace the compressor yourself with a 2nd handie from the wreckers, followed by a re-gas.
For my '03 model, i can grab a compressor for $59 or i can grab the entire a/c system for $144 - each price available if i remove the parts i'd like from one of the cars in their yard - sure beats gardening on a sunday!!
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An attractive option, if I thought I were even remotely competent to do the work. Since I don't have a backup car to get to and from work if I muck something up...
I'll stick with rolling the windows down. 
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BBC reports 28C today in Wales... that does not justify to turn AC on!!!
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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That's outside the car.
Inside, it is considerably hotter. And stickier. Or was, anyway!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Open the window[^]!
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Then I get beaten to death with my own ponytail...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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WTF are you doing with a ponytail in the car? Do all the welsh carry one? Got tired of sheeps? 
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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