Welcome to the Lounge

raddevus22-Jun-17 3:08

22-Jun-17 3:08

The New Nuget Marketing Brochure
Works when it works.
Total chaos when it doesn't --- and you're alone when it doesn't. Laugh | :laugh:

Rob Grainger22-Jun-17 3:15

22-Jun-17 3:15

As I said, they've managed to reinvent DLL hell.

"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.

F-ES Sitecore22-Jun-17 3:26

F-ES Sitecore

22-Jun-17 3:26

The only thing worse than NuGet is when people don't realise you don't need a NuGet package to use JSON Poke tongue | ;-P

modified 22-Jun-17 10:11am.

Brady Kelly22-Jun-17 3:44

Brady Kelly

22-Jun-17 3:44

Immanentize the Eschaton!

Rob Grainger22-Jun-17 22:33

22-Jun-17 22:33

Thing is, it is used by default in some of Microsoft's own project templates and packages. Sometimes you don't have much choice.

"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.

kdmote26-Jun-17 3:31

kdmote

26-Jun-17 3:31

F-ES Sitecore wrote:
you don't need a NuGet package to use JSON

I've only just recently started using Newtonsoft for JSON. I assumed there was probably another way to get it besides NuGet, but I haven't had the time to research alternatives. Can you take a moment to describe your workflow in this regard?

F-ES Sitecore26-Jun-17 3:42

F-ES Sitecore

26-Jun-17 3:42

You can use things like DataContractJsonSerializer to work with JSON, there are other built-in classes too depending on what version of .net you're using.

Marc Clifton22-Jun-17 3:50

Marc Clifton

22-Jun-17 3:50

Rob Grainger wrote:
Recently though, I'm keep getting stuffed by conflicts, bugs and wierdities.

Recently? I've never had NuGet behave properly. And that BS about changing something in some config file to override the version number, well, it's just that, BS.

My SOP:

If I can, I compile the source directly and add to my project the necessary DLL's. This is often fraught with problems, as people can't seem to provide source code that actually compiles, or doesn't compile with the .NET framework that I'm using, or doesn't provide a SLN file, or has all sorts of project kruft that I don't need or care about.
Failing #1 (happens often enough) I create a separate project, do the PM NuGet BS, grab the DLL's from the appropriate .NET version folders, put them in a "Libs" folder that my real project then references, and delete the temporary project.

And the very elephanting last thing I need/want is for some package to update itself, breaking code, breaking other dependencies, etc.

Marc

Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App

Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny

Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802

Mycroft Holmes22-Jun-17 14:55

Mycroft Holmes

22-Jun-17 14:55

I do exactly the same - I have a project called NuGet - I don't bother deleting it. The last thing I need is to open an old project and have that $#%@^&*ing thing wander of and update packages.

It never really worked smoothly for us, this may have been caused by the corporate centurion dissalowing the connection in the early days.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH

Rob Grainger22-Jun-17 22:35

22-Jun-17 22:35

Thanks for the ideas - that may help.

Have to agree on Point 1 too - that and Blog posts with source code the author can never have got working.

Think I have a CP article coming from my recent experiences though - getting good Integration testing working on the MVC stack.

"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.

mbb0111-Jul-17 4:17

mbb01

11-Jul-17 4:17

One problem with NuGet is Visual Studio itself. It assumes you will organize everything at the solution level, so if you're working with a code base with multiple solutions, there are package folders littered everywhere!

Then there are out and out bugs in MSVS. Try centralizing your downloaded packages into one package folder and it all starts going south...

Anyway I've done pretty much what Marc describes above.

I create a ThirdParty solution that I use to download all NuGet packages I want to use. They all get downloaded into the ThirdParty solution's package folder, where literally everything in the package folder gets put into source control.

This pattern allows me to download and keep multiple versions of the same NuGet package so that legacy applications are able to use an older version if, for some reason, it is withdrawn.

From there, any other solutions that want to use a NuGet package will simply use a file reference for the dll directly from the ThirdParty package folder.

Source code from other vendors are included as projects to the ThirdParty solution and again those libraries can be referenced from a solution as a file reference.

Richard Deeming22-Jun-17 4:17

Richard Deeming

22-Jun-17 4:17

Are you adding it directly, or as a dependency of another package? It could be the "Dependency behavior" setting:
NuGet Package Manager UI Reference | Microsoft Docs[^]
NuGet Package Dependency Resolution | Microsoft Docs[^]

"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer

Rob Grainger22-Jun-17 22:36

22-Jun-17 22:36

I've had problems in both cases.

Thanks for the links though.

"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.

PIEBALDconsult22-Jun-17 9:24

PIEBALDconsult

22-Jun-17 9:24

Never used it.

Lucas Vogel23-Jun-17 4:51

Lucas Vogel

23-Jun-17 4:51

Another thing you might want to consider is taking the specific packages you want your project(s) to use, and building your own custom NuGet feed with them. Granted, it's a bit of a hassle, but at least you'll have full control of the packages.

Steve Naidamast23-Jun-17 6:11

Steve Naidamast

23-Jun-17 6:11

I have never used NuGet as I install all my necessary tools manually.

I have never had a problem doing it this way so why use an automated system that can cause you problems?

Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com

Stuart Dootson23-Jun-17 7:45

Stuart Dootson

23-Jun-17 7:45

Paket may be of interest - uses Nuget infrastructure, but manages transitive dependencies as well...

Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p

Kirk 1038982123-Jun-17 8:02

Kirk 10389821

23-Jun-17 8:02

Thinking back to how MicroSoft would build the O/S and take the COMPUTER and save it in a vault, in case they had to go back and change anything.... Because... Well... Managing changing environments, and recompiling to get the same result was NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE...

Now, we have IDEs (and plugins) that depend on the same code that they are likely to use, such that changing one of the DLLs you are working with runs the risk of breaking either the IDE or the code you need.

Then generating a Cross Product (times multiple packages) to increase that risk.

So... The answer is a tool to make adding more packages EASIER...

Suddenly: Doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting a different result comes to mind...

Win10 I/O : Claims another victim

Yortw25-Jun-17 10:54

Yortw

25-Jun-17 10:54

I (and the company I work for) was late to package management, and even now we avoid it where possible, but some Nuget packages have crept in out of necessity. When I first started with it about 2-3 years ago, it worked flawlessly every time for me (though admittedly our usage was light).

Unfortunately it seems to have been broken and then gotten worse with every iteration released since then. I really don't know why. I had a problem the other day where a project showed a broken reference, but Nuget insisted the package was installed ok. Checking the csproj file showed it was referencing version 9.x.x.x of a package, but the packages folder contained only 8.x.x.x. No amount of cajoling would convince Nuget that it needed to download the new version even though VS knew the reference was broken. Only thing that worked was forcing a reinstall of the package.

Having said that not all problems are caused by Nuget itself. Strong named packages are evil - we have some solutions that have a mix of .Net 4 and .Net 4.5 projects in them that all reference the same package (don't ask). All the assemblies ship and run together and it all works fine until you get strong named package and you can't reference the newer version from the .Net 4 projects. Then you're in a world of pain trying to manage the dependencies.

On top of that, at least one of the Microsoft provided Azure packages decided it would be a good idea to rename an entire namespace (or move types to another namespace at the very least), so upgrading from version X to version Y is breaking at the source level with no explanation or release note to say so.

When it works I prefer it to downloading and running installers, then having to manually locate the right assemblies (are they in the gac? in a folder? which folder? somewhere under program files or program files x86? what was the company name again?) etc. Especially nice when you don't have to do this on build servers. Sadly the experience is so broken we do everything we can to avoid it now.

Really the only thing I want from Nuget is for the package restore to work properly, i.e I add a package to a project and check in, my colleague gets latest and builds, and the package is downloaded and referenced correctly on their PC. We've had zero success with this in the last year or so. It's always broken and people are always checking in csproj changes just to fix references/broken reference paths. I really don't get why since it used to work.

Haven't tried Paket - sort of appealing, but I'm led to believe it lacks a GUI so it's a non-starter for some of my colleagues (and I prefer the GUI myself anyway).

raddevus22-Jun-17 2:02

22-Jun-17 2:02

Last night, my son was taking an online test for a summer college course (on his Win10 machine) when his machine suddenly rebooted.
The machine finally came back up and the disk I/O was at 100%.
He couldn't do anything.
Microsoft antimalware exe was going crazy. He has Norton AV also so he doesn't have a (known) virus.

We tried to kill everything -- just to get back into the test which is timed. The 100% I/O persisted as we killed tasks but you can't really kill the antimalware exe which was eating up I/O like crazy.

We will simply have to upgrade him to an SSD now too.
Such a crazy h/w upgrade path that Microsoft seems to be enforcing.

I've reported these problems and even written an article here: Win10 : Examination of Disk Utilization (Includes DiscoFiles utility)[^]

lopatir22-Jun-17 2:04

lopatir

22-Jun-17 2:04

raddevus wrote:
We will simply have to upgrade him to an SSD now too

or upgrade to win 7

Sin tack
the any key okay

raddevus22-Jun-17 2:07

22-Jun-17 2:07

What was really wrong with XP?
It did pretty much everything I needed and it was stable?
Smile | :)

Marc Clifton22-Jun-17 2:16

Marc Clifton

22-Jun-17 2:16

I've had MS anti-malware process running for a few days now, sucking up 30% of my CPU. And that's with SSD's. When I try to kill the process, I get "access denied." Mad | :mad:

[edit]Followed the instructions here and rebooted, which fixed it, then Windows Imaging something or other fired up and started consuming 10% of the CPU, but fortunately was able to kill that. This stuff is ridiculous.[/edit]

Marc

modified 22-Jun-17 8:24am.

raddevus22-Jun-17 2:30

22-Jun-17 2:30

Interesting. I will check that out. Thanks very much.