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Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 2:21

Story - The First Part
My wifes, very old Celeron-based laptop became completely unusable a couple of days ago due to a Windows 10 Update. The laptop worked fairly well since I had installed an SSD. But after the recent update there were Microsoft processes using up 100% of CPU for days.

Story - The Second Part
Yesterday I decided to buy her a new laptop. Found this one at Office Depot ($329)
HP 15 bs051od Laptop 15.6 Screen Intel Core i3 4GB Memory 1TB Hard Drive Windows 10 1TJ84UAABA by Office Depot & OfficeMax[^]

HDD /Win10 Woes
Processor much better i3 quadcore, but still the laptop was a bit slow and I recognized that the HDD was at 100%. Yes, brand new and already slow Cry | :((

Well, I knew it was a cheapy. Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

Replace HDD with Old SSD
I took the old 120GB SSD (far smaller) out of the celeron-based computer, cloned the new image onto it.
Took the new laptop apart. (Quite tricky with 4 screws under the rubber footpads.)
Replaced 1TB HDD with 120GB SSD. It still had 73GB free which is fine for my wife.

Put laptop back together and fired it up. Success!

Yes, Another Problem
However, the upon start up -- I've restarted numerous times -- I get:
a completely black screen with only an arrow cursor for about 5 minutes.
Here's a snapshot I took:
win10 - black background, arrow cursor[^]

Once the machine gets a desktop, it is really fast now. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

Everything works great once the desktop shows up for work.
Multiple Restarts
However, I've restarted 5 or 6 times and every time it takes about 5 minutes to get past the black background with arrow cursor.
It is scary as you wait for it to start.

Has anyone seen this behavior? Any clues about why it happens? Unsure | :~

EDIT
I was googling about and just found this:
Solved: Black screen with cursor for 5 minutes before desktop appear... - HP Support Forum - 6317335[^]

Possibly this is the HP utilities that are autoinstalled. I uninstalled tons of stuff but not all of the HP stuff. Ugh! Maybe that will help. I will try and report back when I can.
Here's a quote about a possible solution:

HP forum said
Chatted with HP support about the same issue. Turned out to be a windows issue. Use search to open msconfig and go to the services tab and disable App Readiness

EDIT 2
More googling about led me to this:
Windows 10 Black Screen with Cursor [SOLVED] - Driver Easy[^]
This problem can be prevalent and caused by numerous issues.

Final Edit SOLUTION
Closing the loop on this one.
Last night I got home and the first thing I tried was installing the latest video drivers.
Even though the laptop was brand new there were newer video drivers so I installed them.
I rebooted and it took more than 5 minutes to show the desktop when I logged in.
Next, I opened up msconfig, found that App Readiness (service) and turned it off.
Rebooted and logged in and this time the desktop showed up immediately.
Success!!
The crap that you have to deal with is almost entirely ridiculous.
Computers still aren't really consumer products are they? Hmmm | :|

I honestly pity the unaware user who buys a new laptop and this kind of crap happens to. Sigh | :sigh:

modified 21-Sep-17 8:41am.

User 1013254620-Sep-17 2:28

User 10132546

20-Sep-17 2:28

I haven't seen it personally but I remember something about Windows 10 being locked to the hardware it's originally installed on..

Something like this.

Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.

modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

raddevus20-Sep-17 2:33

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 2:33

Thanks for reading and replying. That can be a challenge, but thankfully Win10 provides for moving the OS from an HDD to an SSD.
The only reason I know this to be true is because I've done this same thing on my i7, 8GB laptop (originally ran 8.1). My wife's old celeron-based computer originally ran win7 from her original HDD and we upgraded hers to win10 and then moved it to the 120GB SSD.
And recently my son had this same problem with his ultra-fast desktop -- I/O bound on Win10 updates -- and so he moved his win10 OS to an SSD.

I'm writing this fast as a reply and explaining that this does indeed work. Not trying to blast you with facts and prove you wrong. Just a quick reply. Smile | :)

I always appreciate input when I ask a question. Thanks very much for your reply. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

User 1013254620-Sep-17 2:42

User 10132546

20-Sep-17 2:42

No problem, I've never actually tried moving a HDD between machines (usually just format and install them in place).. Smile | :)

modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

raddevus20-Sep-17 2:53

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 2:53

With the new cloning software it actually (usually) works extremely well.
Samsung drives come with their own cloning software. It takes an exact snapshot of your drive so when you put the new SSD into your computer and boot up, you don't know any difference.
Some drives, like the one I had bought for my wife's (Kingston HyperX SSD) didn't come with cloning software and that is a pain. Luckily I was able to get a free tool to do the clone last night.
Macrium Software | Your Image is Everything[^]

Dan Neely20-Sep-17 3:55

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 3:55

Moving an OS image to a new drive on the same machine is easy.

Moving an OS from one machine to a completely different one can be fun. A few years back I tried migrating my install from an old I7-930 to an I7-4790k system.

Attempt 1 was Win 7 from old to new, upgrade to Win 8.1. W7 initially didn't have USB support, I had to find an old AT keyboard and AT-PS2 adapter from the closest, and use the numpad as (really :elepant:ing slow mouse accessibility option) to install drivers and slowly patch and upgrade the OS. The win8.x updates being roaring dumpster fires of trying to install 100 patches at a time causing dependency analysis failures and rolling the whole lot back until done in smaller chunks. D'Oh! | :doh:

Then when all of that was done every ~10 minutes I'd get an error popup from windows trying to open "C:\Program".

At the time I was stumped and went to plan B, upgrade to 8.1 first then migrate. That fixed the problem initially and I had a working OS; only for the win10 upgrade to bring it back. D'Oh! | :doh:

Fortunately by that time one of my pleas for help[^] had gotten a belated response that let me track it down. It was a fubarred scheduled task from something I worked around many years earlier while waiting for an official 3rd party fix. Not sure how it made it onto my win7 box in the first place; the kludge was for something back when I'm 99% sure I was still running XP32 on my main box; and I thought I only copied my document/etc folders over from that install to my vista 64 one (and I think I might've done a clean win7 install when upgrading from that a few years later.) Confused | :confused:

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius

Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt

raddevus20-Sep-17 4:04

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:04

Dan Neely wrote:
Moving an OS image to a new drive on the same machine is easy.
Moving an OS from one machine to a completely different one can be fun

Agree 100%.

I would prefer to never try moving the OS to a different machine/hardware.
"Therein lies madness and sorrow." Sigh | :sigh:

Cornelius Henning20-Sep-17 4:07

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:07

Quote:
"Therein lies madness and sorrow."

Agreed! That's why nature created clean installs. Smile | :)

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

Dan Neely20-Sep-17 4:14

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:14

That time I think I wasted as much time as reinstalling/configuring 20 bajillion programs would've costed.

OTOH several other such moves over the years have gone near painlessly and saved me weeks of crap time.

Foothill20-Sep-17 3:17

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 3:17

It's not locked to the hardware but they do make it a pain in the arse to reinstall and activate Win10 when you rebuild your rig or change out your motherboard. I found this out the hard way when my motherboard at home died and I had to replace it.

if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016

Cornelius Henning20-Sep-17 3:53

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 3:53

So how do you activate Windows 10 after replacing your motherboard? Please tell me you don't have to pay for a license? Sniff | :^)

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

Dan Neely20-Sep-17 4:09

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:09

Haven't been there yet, but if that's the only change you probably need to do the phone activation route for an override of the fully automatic one.

If you simultaneously replace your CPU, GPU, change your ram, switch to a new SDD, etc; you might not be able to convince them you're just replacing parts on a dead system vs doing an install on completely new hardware - under the W10 licensing the latter always needs a new product key. Sigh | :sigh:

Foothill20-Sep-17 4:26

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:26

Well, technically that is what I did. New mobo, cpu, ram, and case. The hard drives, psu, and video card were salvageable but, for all intents and purposes, it could be considered a whole new computer (it sure behaves like one Poke tongue | ;-P

). I think my saving grace was being the dutiful Microsoft customer; I bought a physical copy of Win7 Ultimate (64bit) years ago and did the free upgrade to Win10 Pro when it became available. As long as it's installed only on one machine at a time it's been good. I've technically installed it on 3 different PCs by now.

if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016

Dan Neely20-Sep-17 4:41

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:41

Pre W10 serial installs were officially OK. I wouldn't be surprised if there's less slack in the phone activation system now for consumers playing games around the edge; but their main enforcement target is probably commercial abusers not you or I.

Foothill20-Sep-17 6:56

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 6:56

That's true. I am still waiting for the inevitable moment that Microsoft transitions Windows to a yearly subscription so that they could be done with things like this.

if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016

Foothill20-Sep-17 4:15

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:15

I didn't have to buy a new license. However, I could have saved myself a hour long phone call to Microsoft support by downloading the newest Win10 installer to a USB instead of the one I originally made when I upgraded from 7 to 10. The creators update earlier this year added a new option to Windows Activation for the replacement of major components. It was a one-click activation after that w/license key but Windows had to fully patch to the current build before I had that option.

if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016

Cornelius Henning20-Sep-17 4:22

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:22

This is useful information, thanks!

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

Foothill20-Sep-17 4:30

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:30

No problem. The whole ordeal certainly had me on edge for awhile. I too was afraid that I would have to buy a new license for Win10 but I could have always used my Win7 install DVD to go back to the older (and much better looking) version of Windows.

if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016

Cornelius Henning20-Sep-17 4:58

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 4:58

If your Win 7 disc was an OEM disc, you most probably would have faced the same issue. Installs off of an OEM disc get married to a specific motherboard. It most probably will refuse to activate if you change the MB.

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

Foothill20-Sep-17 6:54

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 6:54

Not a problem for me. I bought an official copy. I've used it to rebuild by rig a couple of times now.

if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016

Cornelius Henning20-Sep-17 2:31

Re: Win10 Challenges : Relentless (have you seen this?)

20-Sep-17 2:31

I saw this exact behavior with the pre-release version of the Fall release of Windows 10. Are you running a pre-release version? My remedy would be to do a "clean" install. You can get an install tool link from this thread:

The Lounge[^]

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

raddevus20-Sep-17 2:35