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raddevus wrote: It's a good point and we often do that trade-off here when we want to do some list/grid view type of data.
The bad thing is that DataGridView makes some things so easy (laziness rules!) like the way you can set the datasource to a dataset and forget about it. Or, well, you can forget about good functionality and nice UI too, but laziness rules!!!.
Then you go to use the ListView and you can make it look so nice but it so much work.   
Laziness rules!!!
It was actually an old In-Joke from years ago on CP, I'm sure Marc remembers it and knew I was being facetious. I can't actually rememeber what the story was behind the joke.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I'd say that any superfluous dependency is an abomination; the DGV is well documented, has a good performance, and simply works. It is a huge leap forward from the FlexiGrid of VB6 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I was going to respond similarly...now I don't have to! Well said! 
I try my best to stay away from third-party libraries.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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kmoorevs wrote: I try my best to stay away from third-party libraries.
DevExpress (and I'm sure the others) are incredible. You'll never go back to the standard WinForm / WPF controls once you start using them. And besides, you're missing out on all the hair pulling, teeth gnashing complexity of their object models, and the constant googling "how do I do this simple thing?"
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Marc Clifton wrote: And besides, you're missing out on all the hair pulling, teeth gnashing complexity of their object models
I dropped Infragistics for Telerik because of the complexity of the object model - yet another of my brilliant choices (Silverlight being the other one).
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: It is a huge leap forward from the FlexiGrid of VB6
That may be, but having to click to select the row, then click to select the cell, then click to pull down the dropdown of combobox grid item, well, that's an abomination in my book.
Latest Article - A Concise Overview of Threads
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Marc Clifton wrote: That may be, but having to click to select the row, then click to select the cell, then click to pull down the dropdown of combobox grid item, well, that's an abomination in my book.
That's the developers choice; AFAIK, one click is enough to select, the second one puts it in edit-mode.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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See the red text at the top of the page, where it says no progr...
Oh. Wait.
Carry on.
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BillWoodruff wrote: Okay, what puzzles me is that I never seem to hear anything about what a developer who creates apps with rich visual interfaces involving complex controls ... does.
They cut hair. And they work for the NFL.
[EDIT]
He cuts hair. And he works for the NFL.
[END EDIT]
modified 25-Oct-18 15:23pm.
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Fantastic post.
You raise a lot a really great questions here.
Very interested in how this will all play out and how well (or unwell ) Microsoft handles it.
Will they just kill technologies like they have in the past?
Will it take far too many years to finally get UWP and Core working properly so that it is adopted happily by devs?
We will see.
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Here's a crazy idea: How about getting a elephanting reporting tool in ASP.NET Core before you force everyone off older technologies?
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UWP has been on Dotnet Core sense last fall. The newness is WinForms and WPF.
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I found it useful to create my apps in Xamarin Forms. I can make UWP apps as easy as iOS and Android. With a careful division of code, a MacOS C# app can use the libraries.
I have also found it easier, in the long run, to have two UI formats, one for phones and one for laptop/tablets.
Al I can say is that it works for me. The only missing part for me is that Microsoft is dilly dallying on a XAML designer.
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I don't trust Microsoft's DEC-era architects (except Herb Sutter) and anything they have concocted. Especially software tools or languages that either are dependent on MS or any kind of runtime. I simply don't trust them. Today, I only program in MFC (I never left it) and await eagerly each time a new modern C++ idiom pops off the ISO C++ press. Modules is next in C++20 which should make my code even more compact and efficient and maintainable. VS C++ is an excellent compiler. Why it is free, I'll never know. As far as complex UI controls, I subscribe to BCGSoft's MFC libraries. These guys are the ones that delivered the technology to MS in 2007. I think they are still delivering new features to them which seem to end up in both Office as well as VS apps, although I can't prove it. I fully expect to be able to compile my code on all platforms without lifting a coding finger thanks to their All Platforms etc mantra. If the architects did this, I owe them an apology, but I rather suspect that it had to do with losing in the developer market place more than great insight. Anyway, I never have any anxiety about being scooped by a runtime or the next big technical-debt-filled programming language because I chose to trust ISO's 116 C++ professors around the world. The only group more lost architecturally than MS is Network IT.
Ok, the GUI libs cost some money ($800, then $400/yr support), but I think you should pay for quality, and they are not only ever-evolving, but their support team is top notch with 48 hours promised response time.
It's great coding huge decentralized apps and not having to worry about programming language or versioning.
Again, I am probably the last MFC holdout, but I'm loving it.
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Um ... QA, anyone?[^]
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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This is gold! 
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This is Dunning–Kruger
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I started on Oct 1, and waited three weeks to gain access to my work area (this happened on Monday). I was having a casual conversation with one of the Windows sys admins, and he asked, "So, how's it going in there?".
I said, "It's cool - I'm eager to get my dev account so I can start working."
and now there's absolute chaos happening. Our group is annoyed with the admins, the admins are pissed off, and I'm sitting here wondering when my sh*t is gonna work.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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It sounds like you are working for one of the big banks.
I sat staring at the walls for a week before I got login credentials.
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It's much MUCH worse than a big bank...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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I would like a job where they can go on for weeks without me - and paying for it...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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Yes, time really flies when you are having so much fun.
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Mine is sort of like that. I was hired as a DBA. Two years ago.
I still don't have an SQL server I get to manage.
Maybe someday.
Hopefully before I retire next year.
Actually, at this point I have absolutely no interest in doing DBA stuff.
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