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MKJCP wrote: but tracking stalking customers using data technology has not.
Sure it has. The only difference now is that the technology has advanced.
If a store knows that I buy a certain product and then gives me a coupon for it, I don't see the harm.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Quote: Sure it has.
Stalking customers using data technology has been happening since the dawn of barter? I doubt you really mean that.
If it were only products and coupons it would be harmless. I am saying the use of "big data" more generally is, on the whole, bad for society.
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MKJCP wrote: I doubt you really mean that.
Sure. What first comes to mind are the grocery stores that long, long ago created memberships.
MKJCP wrote: the use of "big data" more generally is, on the whole, bad for society.
Can you give an example of why? Because I feel like most people are scared because "WE'RE BEING TRACKED!!!" but not really realizing there is no harm. And even more so, because most everyone CARRIES A TRACKER AROUND IN THEIR POCKET already!!! 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Facebook. It thrives on gathered data and attaches itself to peoples lives like a blood sucking leech. They aren't doing it for the users.
I have been around long enough to see the before and after effects of all this great technology. On balance, the internet is a negative for society. Maybe I am jaded but I am not a mindless consipiracy theorist who is scared of being tracked.
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MKJCP wrote: Facebook. It thrives on gathered data and attaches itself to peoples lives like a blood sucking leech. They aren't doing it for the users.
Agree.
MKJCP wrote: On balance, the internet is a negative for society.
Agree.
But I am curious if you have more than feelings on this, if you have a specific example of all the data collection causing real harm.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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There are many cases of identity theft. My friends Mom to be specific.
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MKJCP wrote: There are many cases of identity theft.
But that does not happen because of tracking data. And that also happened long before the internet or cookies.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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No, I said "Data Collection". You asked for an example. You seem to be stuck on tracking.
The internet allowed the means for identity theft to become an industry. Do you have specific examples of identity theft as we know it long before the internet?
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MKJCP wrote: specific examples of identity theft as we know it long before the internet?
No, but I know it happened.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: specific example of all the data collection causing real harm
Did you read my post about companies preying on the weak (addicts, children, the sick, otherwise vulnerable people)?
They know you're vulnerable and they take advantage of it using manipulation.
Back in the days at least they didn't know your weaknesses, especially not of it's temporary, like illness.
And if people knew, it was probably only local and at least companies from across the globe wouldn't leech you for it.
And then of course there's the whole getting Trump elected thing (whether you believe that one or not, stuff like that does happen).
I'm also not about conspiracy theories, but how is big companies knowing everything you do a good thing?
They're inevitably going to use that data to make more money at your expense.
Like selling your data so now everybody knows what you do, when you do it, where you do it and how you do it 
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Sander Rossel wrote: about companies preying on the weak (addicts, children, the sick, otherwise vulnerable people)?
Ya, but that's nothing new. Like I said, it's called being a salesman.
Sander Rossel wrote: They're inevitably going to use that data to make more money at your expense.
Again, the only thing new here is that it is easier now. But the concept is as old as sales people have been around. The downfall of paying based on commissions only.
Sander Rossel wrote: Like selling your data so now everybody knows what you do, when you do it, where you do it and how you do it
First off, most people have been carrying a tracking device in their pocket for years now. Secondly, no one has my address so no one can pinpoint my activities to me directly. And even if they did know that I bought toilet paper from walmart.com, what damage can that do?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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As PT Barnum used to say, there's a sucker born every minute.
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They are a pain. I have given up on some sites because their cookies screen wouldnt go away on mobile.
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I don't care about cookies - Chrome Web Store[^]
The main problem about all this is - I care about privacy. Now I am left with two choices : Click the cookie or GDPR pop-up and navigate, or leave the site.
What did improve now ? I cannot prevent the sites from collecting data, but only get warned that websites collect data. Which they all do. This GDPR thing is the most useless thing ever, a wrong solution to a real problem.
What I would like is - If I do not subscribe to cookies or collecting data, then let me navigate your website WITHOUT COLLECTING THE DAMN DATA OR PUTTING COOKIES EVERYWHERE.
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Rage wrote: What I would like is - If I do not subscribe to cookies or collecting data, then let me navigate your website WITHOUT COLLECTING THE DAMN DATA OR PUTTING COOKIES EVERYWHERE.
I believe the intent of the GPDR is exactly that, but the ad companies deliberately put up these huge annoying dialogs expecting people to just click OK without fully realizing what they're agreeing to. That way they're in the clear with the GPDR and can collect data to their hearts content.
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Rage wrote: let me navigate your website WITHOUT COLLECTING THE DAMN DATA OR PUTTING COOKIES EVERYWHERE.
You want them to add if statements around all of their cookie code?  That could take some time.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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"That could take some time"... exactly. But if they both want me to visit their site, and to comply with GDPR and other privacy laws, that's the cost of doing business.
The point of my original post was that far too often companies are being damn lazy and just splattering a "we're gonna load up your machine with our cookies, if you don't like it, tough you don't even get to see our home page" sign (or words to that effect). GDPR meant to make cookies optional, but companies are so lazy they take the easy approach.
Of course the cookie-dependent code should be conditional - as developers we should all know not to make assumptions about the presence of things we can't directly control (like cookies) so even without an opt-out option, the site shouldn't fall over in their absence.
The issue is just the tip of an iceberg that could sink society - the laziness, sloppiness and self-centredness of most of today's business. (In fact it's not just businesses, either - increasingly it's on charity, "public service" information, government sites etc too).
Plus, I was wondering if other people do what I do - just delete the offending HTML elements so I can see what I want to on the page (and without navigating further on the site).
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The industry and consumers need to figure-out a new way to work together.
Simply having less cookies is still have cookies. Like when food says 10% less saturated fat. It's a workaround to makeing minimal change to the product, but actually does not long term help the consumer.
You disliked being stabbed.
We have a new product. Stabbing 2.0 - 90% less stabby.
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What's irritating as hell is having to respond to the same cookie message each time you go to the same web site, even if you already accepted the cookie usage. Someone is not coding their websites properly, or just does not give a %$#@!
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More interesting - I have firefox set up to accept only first-person cookies and then only until the browser's close (or, more often, I cull the herd).
So - how will the blocked third-party cookies help my experience?
Although not quite equivalent, when I want to remember you on a website I build I use $_SESSION variables - They have, at least in terms of privacy, only one reader - which is the site, itself. No third-party session variables. And gone when the browser closes.
That being said, for public facing websites I don't even do that - only in-house sites to keep track of who's logged in where (encrypted values).
Flip=phone just makes are receives phone calls - no cookie pleas (so far). Mobile users may want to emulate this plan (and save a lot of money on their phone, too).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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In firefox, there is a little rectangular text icon at the right side of the url bar called "toggle reader view". I find that almost all the time, the site is readable in reader view, which ignores the cookie message because it isn't perceived as the main text of the window. I hate to give away my secret, because someone will program around it, but there it is.
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it's because of GDPR, a new law in Europe regarding internet sites to inform users about saving their data. Cookies is a form of saving a user's data.
GDPR, The Checklist For Compliance[^]
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Is a cat in a tree just trying to be a spurrow?
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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nah, well meaning social workers put them there to hide them from catholics.
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