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I started off with a demo account.
Thought I'd put some demo money in oil.
Next day, over €600 (demo, argh!) profit!
Open the news, Trump made some announcement that he was going to put tariffs on oil to keep the price up or some such.
That explained it 
The opposite can happen just as well and sometimes it makes no sense whatsoever.
I remember Facebook going to the stock market.
Everyone wanted a share, everyone was optimistic, closed at minus more than you'd expect
Back in the day, when I was still in elementary school, my parents invested some ƒ100 (guilder, back in those days) in the internet funds or some such.
A LOT of people lost money when that bubble burst (ƒ100 was like two years allowance for me!).
Luckily, my parents just wanted to teach me a lesson and it didn't affect my weekly allowance
I'm also still at -50% on Bitcoin
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I have used long existent companies that are local but with worldwide market (no cars). I won some hundreds and now I am in red due to the drops of last weeks, I didn't panic sell. Just letting it there, giving time to recover. As already stated in several times, not needed money for living.
I am not going to put more money (although many people say now is the moment), when (IF) I get back to green, then I will see again. Not in hurry.
M.D.V. 
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That's how to do it (well, apart from the buying high and not buying low ), don't panic sell and take losses (unless you're worried a company will go bankrupt and you'll lose it all).
I'm doing the same with my Bitcoin, let's just wait until it turns around.
And if I have reason to believe it'll never get to where it was I'll sell it with loss and spend my remaining money somewhere else.
And that's why you shouldn't do this with money you need 
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Sander Rossel wrote: And that's why you shouldn't do this with money you need
exactly
M.D.V.
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A great many of the brokerage firms (in the US) now allow trades for no fee at all - at least a couple of hundred a month. Day traders will exceed this and pay up. Trading firms can make money, anyway, depending upon how they place your trade.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: A great many of the brokerage firms (in the US) now allow trades for no fee at all - at least a couple of hundred a month.
Only for locals, being in Germany all had fees (at least what I found)
M.D.V.
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Also, in USA (I don't think that's where Sander is, but for others) short-term capital gains are more heavily taxed than long-term (to encourage investment, I guess).
Back when I started investing many years ago, I just looked at the Berkshire Hathaway holdings, found subsets of that I felt comfortable with, then purchased those companies. Figured if it's good enough for Warren Buffett, it oughta be good enough for me.
Just let the dividends plow back into buying more. I think I've done reasonably well over the years. Like Sander, I've only invested extra money, so I don't track returns that closely.
My goal is someday to live on the dividends (i.e., start taking them as cash instead of reinvesting). We'll see.
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agolddog wrote:
My goal is someday to live on the dividends (i.e., start taking them as cash instead of reinvesting). We'll see.
A bit contradictory... don't you think?
To live on the dividends, you need a lot of them, what would imply that you have a lot of money (one only should invest what is not needed for living) so you wouldn't need that for living...
Jokes apart... I know what you mean. I don't expect to do that much. But if I can upgrade the holidays with one or two nice extras, buy something I would like to have but don't need (and hence very low in the list) or similars. Then I am happy enough.
At least I see it that way, one invest money that is not needed for living. And use the potential benefits from it to things that are not needed for living, but that make the living nicer  
M.D.V.
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Nelek,
Good point!
Like anything, diligence plays a big key. When I first started out a million years ago (back in the days when I mailed checks to companies to participate in DRIPs), I had a simple plan that seemed to work out pretty well:
Each paycheck, subtract out from my new checking balance my "minimum safety net cash".
Next, subtract out any credit card balances/upcoming bills like auto insurance.
If there's still money left, invest it. I generally split it between extra on my house payment, and investing in these DRIPs.
It wasn't until (too many) years later that I figured out I should designate some of that extra money to a "fun" account--money for trips, going out, whatever.
Anyway, for anyone just setting out, that's a guideline I'd put out there to tailor to your needs.
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I am relative new in this kind of investments (less than a year experience in trading). But I know where my priorities are
M.D.V.
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Day trading is probably the easiest way to lose all your money. While you may have made a quick profit, the averages are against you. Think of stock investment as long term, minimum 10 years, and you are likely to do better. Unless you have time to research companies in detail it is usually better to go for trusts. I don't know about Holland, but here in the UK we have Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts. Both are good vehicles for long-term investment but you still need to do your own research. There is plenty of information on various investment shop websites: Hargreaves Lansdown[^] is a good one. Even if you don't want to use them to invest, they have lots of useful research and information.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: While you may have made a quick profit, the averages are against you.
I know!
In fact, I know someone who lost a lot of money (he could afford to lose) that way.
He was sure to remind me when I told him I was going to trade too.
I don't want to do this for the (quick) money, but for the experience.
And hopefully I'll make a profit (or a minimum loss) at the end
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: it is usually better to go for trusts
Ummm, remember Woodford?
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Yes, I invested in that so lost some money. I also invested in many others which returned a decent profit. Investment is like fortune telling, you can never be certain of the outcome. If you don't like risk then put the money in the bank - at 0.5% interest you are not even keeping up with inflation.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: at 0.5% interest
How lucky...
Here is 0,15%  for 6 months
0,5% for a year (and not everywhere)
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
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good luck. have fun with this.
I pay a company to manage my portfolios and accounts, but I sometimes wish I did it myself.
As for actual "day trading", I don't think I have the stomach for that.
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Thanks!
Slacker007 wrote: I pay a company to manage my portfolios and accounts, but I sometimes wish I did it myself.
Why not both?
Take some money you can spare and give it a shot yourself.
Never regret the things you didn't do
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Two tips/notes:
- Stocks go down further and faster than they go up.
- it's not a level playing field at all: large firms can do things you cannot and probably (at best) consider you a donor.
- In reality, it's just a crap-shoot; the worlds biggest gambling casino
Eventually you learn your place in this food chain (and it's not an admirable one, guppy), exuberance is replaced by shock: Then you decide what to do. More of the same or mutual funds.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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At least I can count to two 
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: you learn your place in this food chain (and it's not an admirable one, guppy)
I learned that a long time ago and decided I wanted to go up.
So far so good, I'm not at the absolute bottom anymore (and that's all I can say about that)
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Sander Rossel wrote: So far so good, I'm not at the absolute bottom anymore (and that's all I can say about that)
They're just fattening you up (think Hansel and Gretel, but the witch wins). As for not being at the bottom? Hell - they just want their food delivered.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I am not sure what country you are in but in US if you decide to day trade, you need to change your tax filing status to the "Mark to Market trader". Because if you don't you will be limited to maximum 3,000 USD loss per year. Say you loose 6,000 you will have to spread it over two years. MTM status allows you to write off the entire loss.
But I am no tax professional as far as how to change it, I just used to write daytrading software
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If you don't file US taxes, skip this. It has nothing to do with you, and the US tax system is the most labyrinthine PoS you could ever imagine. Far worse than the legacy code of your nightmares.
I don't day trade, but I think I know what's going on here. Somehow day traders are treated differently than regular investors, for whom
- the maximum loss that can be claimed in any year is $3000;
- losses that can't be claimed are carried forward and can be used to offset future gains.
If a day trader can claim the entire loss each year, it's probably treated as a job, with gains being taxed as income, the same as short-term gains. This would make sense, although a day trader would probably get the long-term rate for something held for more than a year. But the strict definition of day trading is being 100% in cash by the end of the day.
I just read an article that buying the S&P at the close and selling it at the open has returned 722% since 1993, whereas buying at the open and selling at the close has lost 14%. This year, however, this strategy (I use the term loosely) has been flipped on its head. But it means that day traders, if following the actual definition of the term, have been underperforming the market to an insane extent for a very long time.
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I'm not in the US.
I don't think I can write off any losses.
It's just money I spent and so will negatively impact my property value.
On the other hand if I do make a profit it'll be taxed like property.
Other than that I'm not sure, but I'm sure I'll find out next year when I have to do my taxes
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See section 6.2 of this[^], specifically the description of Box 3.
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If you're doing it for sh*t and giggles and want to learn about the process, limit yourself to some amount of money you're comfortable losing and roll with that.
But if you're doing this for your pension portfolio, let the professionals do it for you. I pay what seems like a small fortune every year to my bank to do it, but ultimately it pays for itself, and then some. OTOH, right now we're seeing exceptional circumstances, and I've lost quite a bit from the peak where it was in mid-January. But they're managing it for the long haul. Despite the loss, I told them just a week or two ago to go ahead and take a part of what was still sitting in my checking account and invest it, in the hope to catch the rebound. It's already gained back that much since.
Another consideration: Taxes. I hope you either have a good accountant, or you're provided with all the numbers you'll need to do it correctly. Otherwise you'll need to start reading your local tax laws.
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