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GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
ZurdoDev17-May-20 15:05
professionalZurdoDev17-May-20 15:05 
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
Frank Malcolm12-May-20 22:58
Frank Malcolm12-May-20 22:58 
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
KLPounds13-May-20 4:00
KLPounds13-May-20 4:00 
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
Richard MacCutchan13-May-20 4:07
mveRichard MacCutchan13-May-20 4:07 
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
kalberts13-May-20 4:23
kalberts13-May-20 4:23 
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
Member 1292431213-May-20 5:37
Member 1292431213-May-20 5:37 
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
Nelek13-May-20 8:58
protectorNelek13-May-20 8:58 
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
kalberts12-May-20 10:13
kalberts12-May-20 10:13 
OK, I can easily understand your frustration.

Yet, at system level, MS has been way ahead of the major competitors with regard to internationalization, all since Windows 1.0: If you accept to call Win 1.0 an "OS" (it was more so than DOS, even in version one!), it probably was the first OS to use as their core OS character set one that coveres the majority of the European languages: ISO 8859-1. MS was also very early to provide alternatives using other 8859-? variants outside Europe/America, with high quality translations of the user interface components.

Surely, in 16-bit Windows, i.e. up to Win98, system components were not language flexible. If my memory is correct, Charles Petzold (The Windows programming tutor!) provided detail instructions on how to dynamically link DLLs into your application according to the user's language preference. I never programmed Win1.x myself, but I did program multi-language application under Win 2.11. Since then, fully internationalized applications have been readily available. The programming methods described are in every serious textbook on Windows programming. No application developer is forced to provide DLLs for Sami and Greek, but it all depends on the developer - the required mechanisms have been available for thirty years.

Handling everything from simple 26-letter English to many-thousand ideographs Asian languages in a single application requires Win32, using UTF16 as its native character set. Win NT is 26 years old. Which other OSes had core support for UTF16 at at that time? When MS started shipping an Arial Unicode TrueType font with their OS, it certainly didn't include all characters, but all those required for plain text in the majority of the languages of the world. How many years did it take for the competiors to follow?

Oldboys remember the document format wars between ODF (Open Document Format) and MS' OOXML about fifteen years ago. One serious critisism of OOXML was that it was too complex: Certainly, a share of its features had no value for Western languages, they were tailored to Asaian ideogram based languages. Strong voices in the "open" world fiercely opposed such complexity, as it would raise the required resources for implementing full format support, which would be in disfavor of that "everyone can make his own free and open implementation" idea.

Essentially, MS has been a strong supporter for full internationalization, providing basic mechanisms and programming guidance at a significantly higher level than most of their competitors. The failures are on the application developers.

MS has its share of application developers. Some MS application projects certainly take internationalization seriously, such as the MS Office guys. But, as Sanders tell: Others, not so much.

If that OAuth solution were provided by some third party vendor, we would have shrugged: Well, find another package, then! (If this had been a *nix system, we would know that even shrugging would be a waste of energy.)

For third party vendors, you definitely cannot expect that they have prepared for Japanese and Korean and Thai languages. For open source software, you can't even expect support for Western cultures - a free TrueType font rarely includes æøå, ñ, õ etc. Lots of UI software can't handle non-US mail address formats, or phone number formats. They insist on AM/PM times, month-date-year dates, full stop as decimal separator, and a set definition of e.g. the first day of the week. Windows does provide information about user preferences and generalized data formats that can be adapted at presentation time, but developers find it too resource demanding to use these facilites.

Of course application developers employed by MS should always spend any resources required to fulfill absolutely all internationalization ideals. Ideally, VS 2019 should have a menu option to switch the entire user interface into Mandarin, using ideographs both in menus, error messages and help information, including guidance on how to get back to something that makes sense to you Smile | :) Unfortunately, it seems as if not every MS project has been alotted the resource to do so.

In Sander's case, I tend to agree with him: The project should have provided better internationalization support. If he had found that package on GitHub, I would have said: Well, that's what OpenSource is for - implement it yourself and give it back to the community! Smile | :)

We expect more from MS than from others. Maybe it is right to expect more. But if you make a checklist for evaluating internationalization provisions by different alternatives, and the MS score is significantly poorer than for the alternatives, then I know that I see a score card tailor made for overlooking the provisions of Windows, and excessively promoting rather insignificant details of the alternative. If I, as an application developer, really want to provide full international support, I know very well that my task is a lot easier under Windows than on several other common platforms.

But if I really don't care, then I also know that my ignorance is far more accepted on several other common platforms. On Windows, you are to a much higher degree, expected to provide internationalization than on alternate platforms. Honestly: I am happy with that!
GeneralRe: Mickeysoft, y u do dis!? Pin
Amarnath S12-May-20 17:37
professionalAmarnath S12-May-20 17:37 
GeneralWe all have to learn someday.... PinPopular
OriginalGriff12-May-20 0:31
mveOriginalGriff12-May-20 0:31 
GeneralRe: We all have to learn someday.... Pin
KarstenK12-May-20 2:04
mveKarstenK12-May-20 2:04 
GeneralRe: We all have to learn someday.... Pin
kalberts13-May-20 4:29
kalberts13-May-20 4:29 
GeneralRe: We all have to learn someday.... Pin
John R. Shaw15-May-20 19:10
John R. Shaw15-May-20 19:10 
JokeWish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... PinPopular
Johnny J.11-May-20 23:41
professionalJohnny J.11-May-20 23:41 
GeneralRe: Wish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... Pin
Jacquers11-May-20 23:50
Jacquers11-May-20 23:50 
GeneralRe: Wish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... Pin
OriginalGriff11-May-20 23:51
mveOriginalGriff11-May-20 23:51 
GeneralRe: Wish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... Pin
Garth J Lancaster11-May-20 23:51
professionalGarth J Lancaster11-May-20 23:51 
GeneralRe: Wish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... Pin
OriginalGriff11-May-20 23:53
mveOriginalGriff11-May-20 23:53 
GeneralRe: Wish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... Pin
Garth J Lancaster12-May-20 0:03
professionalGarth J Lancaster12-May-20 0:03 
GeneralRe: Wish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... Pin
Johnny J.12-May-20 0:09
professionalJohnny J.12-May-20 0:09 
GeneralRe: Wish me luck, everybody. I have a meeting at the bank, and if all goes well, I'll be out of debt... Pin
James Lonero17-May-20 13:49
James Lonero17-May-20 13:49 
GeneralShe was sending me mixed signals... Pin
Sander Rossel11-May-20 22:49
professionalSander Rossel11-May-20 22:49 
GeneralRe: She was sending me mixed signals... Pin
Peter_in_278011-May-20 22:54
professionalPeter_in_278011-May-20 22:54 
GeneralRe: She was sending me mixed signals... Pin
Amarnath S11-May-20 22:56
professionalAmarnath S11-May-20 22:56 
GeneralRe: She was sending me mixed signals... Pin
RickZeeland11-May-20 23:10
mveRickZeeland11-May-20 23:10 

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