|
*lol* "can't be arsed".... I'd love to hear that in an American accent...
Though I have yet to hear an American say "Ask me bollocks" (regardless of how they swing... pun intended)
Who the f*** is General Failure, and why is he reading my harddisk?
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I'm not from US. I can't tell you where I'm from because of privacy  If you're a hacker you can check it yourself though  . Actually my degree can be translated to Software Engineering but after 3 years I can continue and be master of Computer Science (Which I already know I won't  ).
It's as if they want you to be able to check off a bunch of boxes
I have the same feeling. I just study for the exams but still am not good at anything, because there is no time to deep dive in what we learn...
What size is your cohort?
We are about 110, and I don't see anyone dropping out. It seems like everyone doing well besides me  I'm happy for them but it makes me feel extremly dumb. But maybe I'm wrong? I never meet my classmates because of COVID-19 so I can't tell how they actually do.
But I have to wonder if they're trying to weed out a ton of folks
Yeah, I think you are right about it. This is exactly what I think. They want to get rid of us who are beginners and unexperienced and focus on grinding only the real diamonds of programming. Well, I can't blame them, but they should have different requirements before they take in people, because "college"  costs and someone can end up with a huge loan and wasted time. I'm lucky that I at least enjoy what I do even if I fail to deliver. I feel sorry for those who are total beginners.
Anyhow thank's for comfort. I already thought about retaking the courses but in my country you have to fail on many exams to do that. I failed only one exam in each course and have second chance to retake them, so I have to continue. You would probably say: So it's not that bad. What's the problem? Well, I don't feel like I have strong fundaments to continue with more advanced stuff, because I didn't learn my basics well. I have a feeling that everything gonna collapse soon like a house of card when the harder stuffs come. Anyway, thanks for reading my whining post. I feel a little bit better. I will give it another try... I probably come back whining after about a month and it goes on a loop for two and a half years Moderators better block me already
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
|
|
|
|
|
Member 14971499 wrote: I can't tell you where I'm from because of privacy
|
|
|
|
|
Member 14971499 wrote: They want to get rid of us who are beginners and unexperienced and focus on grinding only the real diamonds of programming.
Sorry... but that is bullsh1t. Get rid of many... yes. But keep the real diamonds of programming... totally wrong.
Being able to pass exams in the university has nothing to do with being a good programmer. I know a lot of very good programmers who have no studies and are self taught. And I had a lot of co-students that were passing the exams even with good marks but then couldn't do anything useful in the real world.
I had myself a lot of problems at the beginning of my studies because I had the feeling of not learning enough. Then I was afraid of the exams because I pushed myself down like you. Somewhen I just realized that to pass the exams I didn't need to know all the stuff properly. So I changed my mindset. I focused in passing the exams and learned later what I thought it was more important for me.
Besides from all the academic content that I learned during the studies I have only needed a small part in my professional life.
The most important things I learned where actually "passive" or "non academic" skills, like how to use logic to find the root of a problem, how to learn by myself, how to discriminate relevant from non relevant information in a text and things like that.
Once I started working in the automation, I had to almost start over, because it was mostly new stuff I had not seen during studies.
One of the most important things you have to understand is... the degree will only be useful for your very first job. Afterwards experience and successfull projects are more important than what you studied.
TL;DR: Learn how to pass the exams and get the degree, get your first job, then learn what you need in your job while look for a better job that fits better what you like.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you for your reply Sorry I'm late with my reply. I was studying and took a week off. It really makes me feel better, because I was feeling extremly dumb 
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
|
|
|
|
|
Member 14971499 wrote: Thank you for your reply
You are welcome
Member 14971499 wrote: Sorry I'm late with my reply.
No problem at all.
Member 14971499 wrote: I was studying and took a week off.
I hope it was successful 
Member 14971499 wrote: It really makes me feel better,
Nice
Member 14971499 wrote: because I was feeling extremly dumb
That's what they try.
Focus on passing the exams, specially the first 3 semesters. The good stuff comes at the end, where everything is way less populated.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Member 14971499 wrote: They want to get rid of us who are beginners and unexperienced and focus on grinding only the real diamonds of programming.
That's pretty much the conclusion I came to during my first year of computer science. IMO, high school counselors are either full of sh1t, ignorant, or complicit, or a combination of all three. They kept telling us kids while in high school that college/university were really hard to get into. Just as a scare tactic to keep us in check and study hard. Yeah, study hard, but don't lie to kids as for the reasons.
From my perspective? No, it's NOT hard to get yourself accepted. At least back in my day, when coding still wasn't so mainstream (not that it is today, but bear with me) they knew people were joining because they had heard it "paid well", even if they didn't have the discipline or motivation and really didn't belong in that field. Don't learn something because "it pays well", that's a terrible reason to do it. But that doesn't matter; they'll accept practically anyone, and during the first year, they'll throw everything at you to drive you to quit and provide you with no support. Why? To maximize profits. Universities are run like businesses; the more people they can cram in during the first year, the more money they make. You quit, they get to keep that money. It's pure gravy. For subsequent years, it gets harder and harder to get qualified people to teach the material, so the smaller the classes, the fewer teachers they need on payroll, and the more manageable the teacher's workload. It's now decades later, and nobody's managed to convince me otherwise.
That is the lesson I learned right after high school, and that lesson is NOT taught when you need it the most.
Back to your situation: Make of that what you will. Just don't be surprised if you feel like they're trying to weed you out. They are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I didn't expect to hear a reply after this much time. But, it's all good.
People think I'm cynical for thinking this way. But as I wrote, when I make the argument, nobody has yet to convince me I'm wrong. Or even tried to change my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Greg Utas wrote: Your profile says you're in the US but you call it university rather than college?!
The 'U' in MSU (where I graduated from) doesn't stand for 'College'! And I'm in the states!
|
|
|
|
|
Oh yes, lots of "U"s in university names, but hardly anyone calls it that!
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I read you describe yourself and it seem like you're describing me.
Let first start by telling you something about doing what we (programmers) do. It's because we love it. It's because we're curious and it's because we love the feeling of accomplishment, almost as if we were performing magic when we make something work for the first time.
Now, if you share some of that sentiment, you're likely on the right direction and on the right path, everything else is learned, including the way of thinking.
I for one, always learned best with books. As you said, doing it at my own pace, with the book open over my lap or desk, while I would try whatever I had just learned. It takes time. Fortunately when I started I had time, I was 14 years old when I read my first book. My first book was from the series "teach yourself in 21 days", which was obviously impossible for me with a book of over 700 pages, doing hands one. It was more likely 21 weeks.
What I also didn't know at the time is that I have ADHD (actually ADD, which is the mostly inattentive version). That said, books were one of the only things that actually captured my attention and focus. But yep, in that sense it also made me a slow learner. I started treating myself for the condition just now, over 20 years later, back then I was completely oblivious of the situation, as a matter of fact, I have spent a lot of my life being oblivious about too many things. Too much time in my head and I am thankful for discovering programming (by accident), which gave me some direction.
When I actually went to university, I already knew so much that I would spend my time in class helping others, rather than learning myself, this let me slide through CS classes quite easily and the prior knowledge removed the pressure to learn all of these subjects at the same time. As I never liked to do homework, I could use my spare time in class to do exercises on subjects I was not very savvy about, like physics and calculus.
So maybe you should ask yourself if it's the right time to do Uni of if you could take it slower. I am not sure about the education system there, but have you considered if you can take less classes at a time? I think this could help you focus and give you room to properly learn stuff. There is no point on rushing through uni if you cannot retain what you're being fed with. It's just a waste of time and money. You should realize what you're experiencing as a red flag and you need to reassess your goals.
I think it's no shame on taking longer in the uni if that's all that's at stake. Having that said, you need to also realize why you don't have time. Do you don't have time because you work full time? If your goal is to learn programming and you learn better with books, then why attending uni in the first place? Of course it has a lot of valuable stuff difficult to get from books, but then, maybe now is not the right moment. A lot of us are self taught anyways. My first formal job as a programmer was before I even started uni. So think about this. Put your logic skills to good use and evaluate your life rather than a computer program.
I hope you figure it out and good luck!
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
|
|
|
|
|
You need a "co-op" type program: go to school for 6 months and "apprentice" for 6 months, or thereabouts.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
|
|
|
|
|
Well, that will not work for me. I'm not good at jumping from one thing to the other.
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
|
|
|
|
|
You'd have six months to catch up on your schooling while learning the ropes.
If you think that is "jumping from one thing to another", then yes, you should just throw in the towel. I think you're allergic to work.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
|
|
|
|
|
Gerry Schmitz wrote: I think you're allergic to work.
Really?  And how did you come up to that conclusion? I never met you  Did you read that from the tarrot cards or see that in a crystal ball? Maybe you should try another fortune teller lol
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
|
|
|
|
|
The problem is that CS is a complicated field, which a massive variety of subfields: in terms of languages alone there are dozens that are in common use in the real world, and each of those is used with different aims in mind, with different parts of the frameworks available being used depending on the task.
Just in terms of environments under which an application will run, there are four main contenders: Windows, Web, iPhone, Android: and each of them uses a different framework (or frameworks - there are many different ones in each environment!. Some environments traditionally enforce a specific language: Java for Android, Objective C for Apple, HTML / Javascript plus a backend language for web based.
So there is a huge amount to learn: the course doesn't know what you are going to be good at or interested in so it has to - initially at least - give you an overview of everything so that you know that it exists even if you can't really code in it (and trust me on this, almost nobody leaves a degree course in CS being able to code well in any language, much as their exam results may beg to differ!)
And there's the rub: out in the real world, you have to keep switching about - you can't just focus on one thing for a long period of time, because everyone else is waiting for that bit so their bits can work. And you have to keep on learning, all the time - new ideas, new methods, new frameworks, new languages ... it never ends!
It takes a specific mindset to do this, not that many people have it, and as far as I know it can't be taught - it has to be learned and that's a big difference!
I'd suggest talking to your tutor, and seeing what he can suggest or do to help - if nothing else this will be a problem he has met before and he knows you better than we do.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
Amen ! 
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
|
|
|
|
|
I would take issue with your usage of CS.
CS IMO is the study of computing in the abstract - algorithms, complexity theory, etc. In order to apply CS in the "real world", we use computer languages, operating systems, etc. The difference is analogous to that between physics and electronics.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
|
|
|
|
|
Precisely so. Computer Science is infested with wannabe mathematicians, and Software Engineering is infested with wannabe engineers. 
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for your reply, sorry I'm late with it. I took a week off just to program some real stuff and see if my programming skills go anywhere. And actually it was a good choice. I learnt a lot and gained confidence in myself. It looks like I'm not that dumb as I thought. I really progressed so maybe I have a chance to work as a programmer if I keep up studying and practicing. At least i hope it will lead to a job someday.
Have a nice day 
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
|
|
|
|
|
You're welcome!
Good luck.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
|
|
|
|
|
Member 14971499 wrote: If you want to pass the exams the school books and lectures aren't enough. You have to learn from other sources.
I won't comment on your situation, others have done that - but this quote is so true, yet so little understood. Even at school (I'm thinking 'A' levels in UK) it applies. Yet too many youngsters think that if they just do the minimum (turn up at lectures and read through the booklist) they'll pass with flying colours. There may be subjects where that's true, but in general doing well involves a lot more than that.
Ironically, it was the route I took - doing the minimum to check the boxes, and I completely wrecked my A-levels (resulting in D, E and O grades instead of the A, B, B I needed for my preferred uni course) and managed to scrape a 2:2 at Uni when with some application I'd have got a good 2:1. Fortunately exam grades are not the be-all and end-all and I rate my career as pretty successful.
|
|
|
|
|
You are sweating the small stuff. Concentrate on what it takes to pass the exams and ultimately get the degree. When you get your first job, you'll likely find that it has nothing in common with college exercises or exams. Buckle down and get through it.
My story: At 20, I was a struggling CS student...not particularly struggling with the CS classes, but with all the other required 'culture' classes...that and an inflexible computer lab schedule and an inadequate number of terminals when it was open. That combined with a lack of funds at the time brought my first college try to a halt. I got a pretty good factory job and did that for 10 years.
In the late 90's, I'd put back enough money to go live in a shack on my grandparent's farm and attend the local college, this time as a CIS major. I was a much better student the second time graduating at the top of my class and landing a job before graduation. 20 years on an I'm a co-owner of that company.
While I don't regret any of my choices, I would advise you to tough it out and get through it, otherwise, you may find yourself on a factory floor. From experience, it's much nicer (and lucrative) getting paid to use your head than your back...just my 2 cents.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
|
|
|
|
|
enjoyed your post
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
That make sense, becuase it so strange that the requierments for college application were so low while the degree itself is really hard to take.