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DerekT-P wrote: I'm constantly trying to not only learn my client's business, but bring knowledge and ideas from other industries (clients) together with new technology-related ideas and concepts to try and give the client that innovation and advantage
So did I... but that came with experience and not learning the business of my next project in advance...
Specially when my next project was assigned to me, and then to be started in a couple of days (at best yesterday).
DerekT-P wrote: It gets frustrating when the client tells me too precisely what they "want" and doesn't involve me in their business processes - it's like having my hands tied and I know I can't bring the added value I'd like.
I had a customer that was like that and yes, I give you that it is frustrating. But most of the "business" doesn't know enough about our business to really know if you are doing the things in a way or in another (as long as there is not visible change in the outside)
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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That's consultant thinking.
Or are you implying that programmers aren't part of the business? 
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Depends, I've never felt myself a part of the business as I'm always just an external programmer.
I'm part of a business, just not the customer's 
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In my personal experience, programmers are often the people with the best understanding of how the business actually works.
But that is obviously depending on the size of the company and probably isn't true for companies where IT is of secondary importance.
In short, mileage will vary.
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That's a scary thought though...
Can you imagine how little the average person knows about their job? 
I've certainly met people who "press this button, which does stuff."
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I know.
And guess who programs that button.
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After a Windows "Search" (View: details, columns: "Date modified", "Type", "Size", "Folder") and a results returned (484 items), the search engine stops and one can scroll through the list of filenames. In the URL control window for that Windows Explorer display the message is "Search Results in {computer name}".
Now, if I go to the main menu and tab to "View" I see a ribbon of icons where I can change that view to list (and four others ... obviously). Why, when I depress the List icon, does the SEARCH happen all over? I have to wait for what seems to be another"search" to take place?
What's going on here?
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Member 15347602 wrote: but they do not have (and are not willing/able to get) any idea about the business...
Eh?
Why should that matter? Unless of course you do not have the process (discipline) in place to tell them what they need to know to do their job. And not someone elses.
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bananas !
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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Faramir: "Nazgûûûûl!"
Witch-king of Angmar: "The N-word, really? That's wraithist..."
Gets his coat and rides away on Shadowfax
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That reached a new low in punning. 
(Insert Dan Neely's puking man here)
Sander Rossel wrote: Gets his coat and rides away on Shadowfax
Who was that masked man, and why, oh why did we let him get away?!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Ok. You can have the one really bad pun.
Just don’t make a hobbit of it.
If you can't laugh at yourself - ask me and I will do it for you.
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That's a very bad pun. Ring me when you have one that rules them all.
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Hippo Birdie ![Sheep | [baah]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/sheep.gif)
Hippo Birdie
Hippo Birdie dear @code-witch
Hippo Birdie
Have a great day! ![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif) ![Beer | [beer]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif) ![Badger | [badger,badger,badger,badger...]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/badger.gif)
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Congratulations ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif) ![Java | [Coffee]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif)
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Happy Birthday Honey!!! 
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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Happy birthday! ![Beer | [beer]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif)
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Happy birthday @code-witch! 🥳
Your birthday present is a new pitchfork for me to chase you with.
Of course I won't get it out today as it's your birthday
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Happy birthday
The less you need, the more you have.
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut...occasionally.
JaxCoder.com
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Than me and code-witch have the same birthday. Congrats.
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Happy birthday to you both!
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Then Hippo Birdie ![Sheep | [baah]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/sheep.gif) as well!
![Jig | [Dance]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/jig.gif)
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Happy Birthday!!!
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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Happy birthday to you too!
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