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I'm okay if they want to change their business model, etc.
What I am not okay with is when the printer won't print. And it does not tell you why.
And the software doesn't tell you why.
Or they make a trivial process harder than it needs to be.
It's like Windows 11 and Microsoft's rape of the menus and what not. They *say* it was for a better user experience, but I challenge anyone from MS to justify it. Now I read that one of the later updates reduces file transfer performance by 40%. Huh? HOW DO YOU BREAK THAT? 
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Return the printer if possible and get your money back.
Your experience says bad printer, bad software. Or they want your computer to turn into an HP.
Run away.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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charlieg wrote: Now I read that one of the later updates reduces file transfer performance by 40%.
They accomplished that with the release of Windows 7, IIRC, and never fixed it in any subsequent version.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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We use Cannon at home. This thing prints/scans with one klick from everywhere - iOS, Windows, Android. I think if I just give it a kick, it will start printing...something. In fact, I'm convinced this printer is like the semi's brakes - the default state is printing, it needs power and software to hold it from printing.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet!
Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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I have a Canon multi-function unit at home and I like it a lot. One nice thing I found is third party ink is available for it at very inexpensive prices. I think I paid $20 for five sets of cartridges which is considerably better than 40 or 50 for one set from Canon.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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might need to look into them.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Once I get the initiative to pick up my old amateur photography hobby (getting that activity running is the big problem!), I will look for an upper-middle-class photo printer. A3 size is minimum - preferably continuous paper roll. Epson is a good name in photo printers, and a couple of my friends have bought smaller Epson models where you can refill the printer's cartridges from large bottles - and it is 'original' ink!
They are very satisfied - the per-copy ink cost is significantly below other alternatives. The only disadvantage: Don't spell the ink from the bottle on anything. It is impossible to wash off. If you get it on your fingertips, you must scrub your fingers with harsh soap for a week, until the cells of your fingertips has been replaced by new cells from below.
This doesn't scare me. Both cost concerns and the reputation for quality points to Epson as the provider of my next printer. AND: I have checked out - the Epson printer series works perfectly fine without a network connection. (Unless things have changed over the last six months.)
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There's been instances where I've successfully extracted the installer content to a folder on disk.
With that available, instead of running the setup.exe or whatever bootstrap process installs the whole thing, I just launched Device Manager, selected the newly added "Unknown Device", right-clicked, selected Update Driver, and then navigated to the extracted folder and told Device Manager to look in there.
As long as Device Manager can find at least a set of .INF and .SYS files, you may be lucky enough to get the basics working. I know (for example) my scanner has some fancy software, but I really don't need/want it, and as long as Paint.NET sees there's an "Imaging Device" (which was enabled by installing the driver), it can perform the scan and everybody's happy (well, myself primarily, I don't care if the manufacturer doesn't get to spy on what it is I just scanned)...
YMMV. But yes, I agree that requiring to have some account and being online to use some piece of hardware that is completely unrelated to networking (for one) deserves a return / refund.
I also have a printer where this approach didn't work. I gave in and installed the full software, but in a VM that is dedicated to using that printer. It's spending 99.99% of its time turned off, so there's no software needlessly wasting resources and connecting all the time to who-knows-what.
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I have a couple of scrub machines around, I'll give that a try. HP must be injecting itself into the print spooler some how.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I completely despise HP. A few employers ago they were our biggest customer and they quickly become the worst customer I have ever had to deal with, EVER! They gave us documents on all procedures we had to follow that filled up an entire bookshelf and the best part about them was they didn't follow them yet they were supposed to. I won't even get start on the incompetence I had to deal with. Anyway, they were so bad that I vowed to never buy anything from them ever again and I haven't.
FWIW, one of the their systems I worked on built inkjet cartridges. It used the most ridiculous application framework I have seen in my entire career. It was absolutely disgusting to work with. Apparently it was someone's master's degree thesis and I can't believe it survived a defense. Had I been on that board I would have rejected it entirely. I hold it and its advocates in very low regard. If any of you are reading this, I MEAN IT!
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Another example of stupidity, although in a very different area:
I am certainly not a 'prepper' of the kind that they make TV stories about, I just want to be somewhat prepared for eventualities. So I wanted a gas stove, in case we have a power blackout. 99.99% of all cooking stoves in Norway are electric, so it makes me slightly eccentric, but a few of my friends are gourmets insisting that gas burners are superior.
I settled for a model for my remodeled kitchen. At the very last moment, reading its online instruction booklet, I discovered that this stove had a 'security system' that would close all gas valves in case of a power blackout. There is no way to override this (I have that in writing from the manufacturer). So when you really need a gas stove because of a blackout, it won't work. It is totally dependent on household electric power.
I found an alternative. On my request, the manufacturer has provided a clear statement that in case of a blackout, the stove will still work, although not with the electrical ignition - I will have to lit the fire with a spark igniter. That is perfectly fine with me - I always used spark igniters on camping/cottage gas stoves.
(This second alternative also solved another problem. In Norway, all your friends - except for the gourmets - will run you down: 'You are crazy, not going for an induction top! It is just sooooo much better!' The solution I ended up with was a half-with, two-burners gas stove for the power fallouts and for my gourmet friends, and a half-width induction stove for all the other friends of mine ... It is not just for my friends: I bought it with a cast iron grill unit that I can put on the most powerful induction zone, for grilling my steaks!)
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Oh man, I get you.
Here in America, most of the houses could have been designed by 5 yos. Whatever you can slap together in 30 days, and if we slide enough cash to the "inspectors"... My biggest beef is that there are no real range vents. If the vent over the stove sends the air back into the kitchen, it's a joke.
So, when we decided to redo the kitchen, there were two non-negotiables. I wanted a gas range and I wanted a REAL range vent. I paid for both. And we are foodies, sorry, electric/induction is cute but it just does not cut it.
But about your stove. Why the heck would a gas stove need to have electricity (looking at mine now)? Sure it has electronic ignition, but wait one...... well crap, I need to go turn off a breaker - I'll have to test it later. The only reason we have electronic ignition is to avoid pilot lights.
But seriously, friends shaming you for cooking on gas? Stop feeding them.  tell them the induction part is broken.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I rented a house over Thanksgiving and cooked with gas for the first time. Actually hated it. While it responds quickly to temperature changes, it was always slow/questionable to light with the electric clicker and never really seemed to get as hot as my electric at home. I'll keep my electric stove. I also have an external vent over my stove that I wouldn't go without!
Hogan
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When shopping for a gas stove, I too noticed that a great deal of them are significantly lower power that I am used to from electric stoves, which are typically 2000W, the smaller ones 1500W. Typical gas stoves are 1200-1500W, some down to 1000W. So I specifically looked for a high-powered one. The one I settled on has burners of 1900W and 2800W.
You are right: Most gas burners are lower effect than modern electrical cooking tops. I don't know why, except that in my childhood, typical electrical stoves were 1000 / 1200 / 1500W. Around here 2000W became the standard maybe 45-50 years ago. Maybe the typical gas stove customer never experienced the convenience of having high power available when you need it.
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charlieg wrote: But seriously, friends shaming you for cooking on gas? Stop feeding them. tell them the induction part is broken.
Norway is a country where you are expected to be "modern" in all aspects. Throw out all the old sh*t. You are shamed even for cooking on a ceramic top, "Why haven't you replaced that with an induction top?". You are shamed for using a CD or DVD player; today everything is available at streaming services. No, I say: Look at this movie, this, this and this. Or off-mainstream music. Besides, I've got my music when the network goes down (similar to having a cooking stove during a blackout). You are shamed for using a compact camera, SLR or traditional video camera, rather than your mobile. You are shamed for sending an email rather than texting. For buying a diesel car rather than an electric one. And so on.
If you do things the old ways, because you know them to work well, you are ignorant. Or maybe plainly poor, you cannot afford to buy what you really want. Of course everyone really want induction stoves and streaming and all your life in your smartphone and electric cars. Why wouldn't they, when it is soooo much better?
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At one house I had, with it's shiny new appliances, I looked into getting a gas range instead of the white electric glass top that came with the house and promptly turned brown. I was told that in case of electric power loss, I would need to have the gas stove plugged into a UPS in order to light it, and that matches wouldn't work becuase of the 'patented sealed-burner design' that has finally made gas stoves 'safe'.
I kept the electric glass-top. I did have a prolonged power-outage (7-days) in the middle of a snowstorm. An underground transformer blew, and I ate out a lot, did some homework by candle and PDA (I was working on my Master's), got extensions on some assignments, and a letter in the mail from the electric company espousing their efficiency to get everyone's power back on in 2 days. Standing their without power reading how they had the power back on really was ... irritating, and I sent them a letter in response to their nonsense, and another letter to the regulating agency. The electric company sent me a greenbar printout to 'prove' they had everyone's power back on in only 2 days, and chastised me for contacting the regulating agency.
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Find a different gas stove that doesn't have that patented hoohaa. We intentionally have our gas stove's breaker switched off because we have always had issues with the electric igniters and have a little plasma lighter sitting next to the stove top. I don't have kids and the cats don't jump on the stove top, so I'm not worried about the gas getting turned on accidentally.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss.
Lazarus Long, "Time Enough For Love" by Robert A. Heinlein
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Since we got these 'smart meters' a few years ago, we can easily retrieve over internet the hour-by-hour electricity consumption, to prove the length of a blackout (although only with hour resolution). If your bill says that you have had zero consumption for seven days, and the power company tries to say: That is only you turning everything off for the last five of those seven days - then no one will believe them. Here in Norway, you could demand an economic compensation for being without electricity for a week, and if customers insist on compensation for seven days, the power company for two, the quarrel could end up in court.
It never would go so far, though. The smart meters would provide proof, and there are web pages presenting maps with all blackouts drawn in, along with estimates for how long it will take to fix the problem. If the map for five days says 'No problems in this area!' but none of the customers have any power available, then the power company won't get much peace through those five days!
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Interesting. But my incident was pre-2006, and I didn't have a SmartMeter there at that time.
I had not actively shopped for gas stoves up until then, and instead always accepted what came with the house. And at that time it wasn't possible to purchase a gas range that didn't have the sealed-burner design. I understand about cats and children....never the issue for me, though.
My previous home was a house built in 1925, and the gas stove that came with it was probably of similar vintage, with standing-pilots on the burners that didn't want to say lit, and an oven that didn't have a pilot. I generally had to use matches to light a burner or the oven with every usage. But I never endured a lengthy power outage there.
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One of our gas burners has been started with a grill lighter for the last 15 years after a “soup over flow” ruined/disabled the electric ignition.
It is unfortunately the most popular burner.
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Try to install a "wired" HP printer from a wireless laptop and you'll get even more frustrated.
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Like I said, the s/w blows.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Having to be online to use an HP printer immediately disqualified them from consideration when we were looking for a new printer. That design decision is totally unjustifiable.
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From what I can tell HP no longer develops the printers they sell. I believe their model is to provide generic software built around a set of so-called standards. Printer mechanism OEM's then provide the hardware, HP smacks a label on the CMYK-spewing abortion, and sells the result. HP gets a cut.
The last couple of HP printer's I've purchased function adequately without installing the HP software crap, so I haven't.
That thin, high-pitched whine you hear reverberating in the background is from Bill Hewlett and David Packard spinning in their graves.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote: The last couple of HP printer's I've purchased function adequately without installing the HP software crap, so I haven't.
That worked for me for a while but then it realised and installed PrintSmart (or whatever it is called) itself. Then everything stopped working, had to uninstall and re-install. It then failed to install wirelessly so I ran a cable to it and now the PC sees the printer twice and I can print either way, even though it claimed not to have installed the wireless version.
Oh, and the printing software occasionally tries to re-install itself and for reasons I cannot begin to fathom, I have one desktop icon for scanning mode and another one that accesses printing and scanning ....
And when it does re-install itself it changes some print settings that disable double sided printing and I have to go deep into Windows settings to change something to re-enable it.
But apart from that, it's great.
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