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Shao Voon Wong wrote: In my honest opinion, if your purpose is to charge customers for your software and make money, don't make your software open-source.
Shao Voon Wong wrote: It makes it useful to other developers but useless to the creator in monetary terms.
I believe you are right on 100% with both of those statements.
It is actually quite painful to discover this because I thought being open source would be :
1. really cool and interesting and a (sideways) way of marketing the project to devs.
2. allow devs to see the code so they could vet it themselves and see how it works.
But, from everything I'm reading going the OSS route makes it basically impossible to make money -- unless it is from a side thing like maintenance or support or extending the software.
That was even more confirmed by the Bruno Lowagie link (and bunch of reading I did) that you provided.
Thanks again for the input and discussion, you've really helped me understand this.
Honestly it makes me sad too, because it kind of quashes the dream of "creating something cool and helpful and just putting it out there and then being able to support yourself".
Instead, it has to become this Official Thing that protects itself like a huge monster that will threaten or destroy anyone who tries to steal it.
Not really the software development dream I was hoping for. But I am naive.
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Can you do it as you described? Yes.
Why is there no 'standard' license for that? Because there are too many variations.
And if you are going to make money then you should really talk to a lawyer. You will need to understand liability, taxes, etc.
Variations? For example I have seen ones where the free tier depended on how many users there were, the activity based on different time periods, how many servers it ran on (complicated by cores), what industries it what used in (for example not allowing government/military use), and others.
I have seen a license which allowed just inspection but did not allow making money from it. More often now I see cases that do not allow it in any 'commercial' use. Which is why I always actually read licenses for third party libraries. Versus what very often in my experience seems to be that developers think that because they found it on the web it can be used without regard to the license.
raddevus wrote: Richard Stallman had when he created the idea of OSS
I doubt that attempting to wrap it in a ideologic context is going to mean anything.
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I see now that all OSS is really just a "poison pill".
Think about it -- if you use the GPL then you require that any software based off yours is also free.
That means that only large companies who will provide support, documentation etc. will ever make any money from the software -- but no money goes to the original (ass-in-chair) developer.
I'm sure that this is what Stallman originally intended.
If you watch this video by Bruno Lowagie of iText (PDF converter) you will see the agony of doing OSS.
Open Source Survival: A Story from the Trenches - YouTube[^]
So the dream of creating an amazing system as a Developer is dead.
Instead it is the nightmare of creating a Business Which Owns the System and bullies everyone to pay for it. (Does this sound like MS, Google, etc. ?) Not the dream I was looking for.
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raddevus wrote: if you use the GPL then you require that any software based off yours is also free.
That specifically is not true.
I have seen a license, years ago (more than 10 years at a minimum), that seemed to suggest that. I have not seen it at all recently.
raddevus wrote: I'm sure that this is what Stallman originally intended.
Stallman had no problem with people making money. His primary idea is that the code was viewable and that the product code be modified by the user. That idea came about long ago when only products were delivered (no services), when products tended to be much smaller, and when licenses due to the prior two items could be much simpler.
raddevus wrote: So the dream of creating an amazing system as a Developer is dead.
My dream is that I get a substantial paycheck. And that requires that the company makes money.
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raddevus wrote: My Question For This Forum
Why isn't there a nice license like the one I describe above?
One where intellectual property (and all that work we do as devs) is protected.
But, where we can still make the source open?
For that, you should post it in the B&S or summon the masters of the hamsters...
@Chris-Maunder
@Sean-Ewington
@Matthew-Dennis
You might be interested on this OP
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Well, I didn't want to bother those guys, because they are so busy.
I was just learning about OSS licenses and wondering why there wasn't a license like that.
I see also that when you write an article here you can choose any OSS license very easily so that is very nice
I was more interested in why a new License that is Open Source for minimal use and Closed/Require Payment for "larger" use hasn't been created. I guess that is up to each software dev / creater to get with an individual lawyer -- which may be cost-prohibitive.
Thanks
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raddevus wrote: Well, I didn't want to bother those guys, because they are so busy.
I don't think they would see this as a disturbance, but they are the ones that might give you the best answer. As it has happened  
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I think you're confusing free (no cost) and free (freedom to do what you want). It's always bugged me that the Free Software Foundation uses the term "free" to mean "freedom" and I feel the rest of the world sees "Free software" as "I don't have to pay". I'm fairly sure if you asked any random person this ambiguity would show.
Short answer: you can do what you want already.
Other answer: look at the MongoDB licence. That not only allows you to do what you want, it also protects you from others (eg Amazon and big players) who take your code, host it, and sell it with no added value. While this certainly goes against the "freedom" of Free code, life isn't fair, and "free" has been abused enough that others have become fed up and created licences that abide by the spirit, namely allowing devs like you and I do use code as we need to, without abusing the author's intent, but also protecting the author
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Thanks so much for taking time to read my "rant" and to understand what I'm trying to say.
I really appreciate it.
Chris Maunder wrote: Short answer: you can do what you want already.
That would be fantastic! In the end, if I'm unable to release it and be paid I will still release it as OSS because I still believe in the value of sharing and what my service does*.
Chris Maunder wrote: Other answer: look at the MongoDB licence. That not only allows you to do what you want, it also protects you from others (eg Amazon and big players) who take your code, host it, and sell it with no added value.
That's exactly what I'm looking for!!! I will take a closer look. I thought maybe someone in this modern age would've had to already run up against this and already done this. Fantastic.
*tldr;
My service :
1. written as a .NET Core WebAPI
2. allows you to post your (or your user's data) by pointing at my WebAPI - all data is encrypted (using Authenticated encryption and AES256 algo)
3. Supports any DB backend via two configuration strings -- this is the magic sauce!!! The user can simply choose a DbType (sqlite3, sqlserver, oracle, mysql, postgres, etc.) and add valid DB connection string and data will be encrypted (on client side of course, sent over https) and saved to DB.
Additionally, if the user is running on sqlite3 and wants to switch. Literally stop the WebAPI, make the two config changes and start against new DB.
4. The source code behind the magic sauce makes code extremely small and easily extendable (via interfaces & generics). IE - even if you have a new DbType you can have it supported in 15 minutes, following the source-code pattern.
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The toothbrush was invented in the south.
Otherwise it would have been called a teethbrush!
Ok I'm bored...I know the way out.
I don't think before I open my mouth, I like to be as surprised a everyone else.
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.1.0 JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: Simon Says, A Child's Game
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I think teefbrush was originally suggested, but nonofus can count that high.
Jeremy Falcon
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I remember back in the CRT days when LCDs first came out. Everyone knew LCDs had a slow refresh rate in comparison (at the time). Eventually, LCDs became the norm, people are finally like woo hoo 120Hz even though back in the day we had that all along. But to make the switch you gave up that sweet, sweet refresh rate.
Fast forward to today. We have IPS displays because we've come that far. Except IPS is old and crusty apparently. OLED is where it's at. Cool. Expect one thing...
Why are there no 4K OLED computer monitors out there? I can find QHD ones but no 4k. Noooope. I've had a 4K monitor for years now... not gonna be easy to go back. So here's the question, is QHD on an OLED still crisper? I never had one yet, but I somehow find it hard to believe an up or downscaled resolution would be as crisp as a native 4k resolution. Or is OLED that much better that QHD is still ok when scaled?
Keep in mind, I'm not getting this monitor to game on and I know OLED has deeper blacks, better contrast, etc.... but no 4K? 
Jeremy Falcon
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I'm using 3840 x 1260 resolution. I think that's 4K, but I'm not sure.
The resolution is good enough for me to sit just about a foot from the screen and not see pixels.
The interesting thing is that some very fine and small fonts look multicolored even though they are supposed to be black. I suppose that's a problem with the monitor.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote: I'm using 3840 x 1260 resolution. I think that's 4K, but I'm not sure.
4K is 3840 x 2160 pixels, so that's about half the vertical space gone. Poof... vanished.
Richard Andrew x64 wrote: The interesting thing is that some very fine and small fonts look multicolored even though they are supposed to be black. I suppose that's a problem with the monitor.
That's my concern. I've been Googling like crazy today and I've heard stuff like that... that for text you can see artifacts like that on OLED. We're coders, so you know... text is niiiiice.
So far, from what I gather... OLED has much better colors. But, a good old trusty IPS has sharper text.
Jeremy Falcon
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Oh, I should say... I am scaling 150%... so it's not like my vertical would appear twice as large if the monitors were side-by-side. It just means I'm using more pixels per inch of screen for something that would otherwise appear similar. At the expense of my colors probably looking much worse.
Jeremy Falcon
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I'm sorry, I was dyslexic when I wrote the resolution. I meant 3840 x 2160, as you say.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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And it's OLED? Would you mind sharing a link so I can look at buying one?
Jeremy Falcon
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I wish I had saved the box for it, cause I've no idea what the name of the model is. All I know is that it's LG brand and its 32 inches.
Can I find the model name somewhere in Windows?
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote: Can I find the model name somewhere in Windows?
If you have the drivers for it installed, it'll be listed under device manager.
Jeremy Falcon
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You're right, I should have known that, but my brain is in weekend mode. 
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Device manager only says "Generic PnP Monitor". Well, that's frustrating!
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I'll keep searching, thanks for trying at least. As an aside, just found out there's something called QLED now... which isn't as nice as OLED but maybe there's a 4K version under $4k... 
Jeremy Falcon
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Good luck!
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote: I wish I had saved the box for it, cause I've no idea what the name of the model is.
I can't quite believe I am writing this, but wouldn't you expect to find a model number on the back of the monitor somewhere, if not the front?
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