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thank you! Rose | [Rose]

diligent hands rule....

why would you wish to do such a thing . it is after all astrology . how can Russian astrology not be just as stupid as English astrology . no doubt there are more interesting / productive ways to spend your time .

Well, people translate the bible all the time Smile | :)

1st i presume the Bible has already been translated into every known language .
2nd i presume the Bible is not astrology .
3rd i presume the original poster one Southmountain does not believe for one second the non-sense of astrology .

You grossly underestimate the number of languages in the world.

For those languages where a translation exists, there are new translations made regularly, alt least for the "big" languages. How many different English translations exist? On the net, I can access four different "official" (that is, from the Norwegian Bible Society) translations; I've got at least two other translations of the New Testament and the Psalms in my bookshelf.

Astrology is a quite specific concept. There are tales in the bible involving astrologers, but lots of tales about other ideas of strange powers and structures that cannot be verified any more than the astrology tales.

There is no principal difference between turning down a wish for a translation of an astrology text and a similar wish for translation of a bible. Then both describe claims of unprovable supernatural forces. I drew the parallel between the two.

In other cultures, in other times, astrology has had a comparable position in society as Christian beliefs have in ours. In other times, turning down astrology as nonsense, would be like turning down Christianity as nonsense in the American society today.

at least part of the Bible spoke of Jesus . a real person who seemed a decent chap . i presume there are no similar decent chaps in astrology . it is not surprising to me people would be interested in him .

If you look in the old testament, there are quite a few far from decent chaps.

And for this Jesus fellow: Yes, there were a couple of him. The Jesus that Matthew tells about being born under Herod (died 4 BCE) can't possibly be the same as Luke's Jesus, born when when Quirinius was governor of Syria (from 6 CE).

Matthew-Jesus' family was living in Bethlehem, in a house. There is no reference to neither enrollment, stable or shepards. No indication of a return home, or a travel to Bethlehem - they were living there. But they had to flee to Egypt for a few years. They wanted to return to Bethlehem, but found it too risky - that is when they settled in Nazaret.

Luke-Jesus came traveling from Nazareth where the family lived, up to Bethlehem (for the enrollment) and was born in a stable. There is no reference to star or wise men or flight to Egypt. After having gone through the necessary rituals, they returned home to Nazareth.

The two Jesuses have distinctly differing genealogy.

So there were at least two Jesus chaps. Now, 'Jesus' was a common name (and still is in a lot of countries). Claiming that Jesus never lived is just silly. Lots of Jesuses have lived. Also, for preachers of both judaism (like the bible Jesuses) and other religions, around that time it certainly was common to present yourself as a 'son of god'. The bible Jesuses were not alone in that claim.

For the things that one or another of these Jesuses are said to have done: A good share of the stories are found in a lot older religions. Other holy persons pulled the same tricks hundreds and thousands of years before one of those bible Jesuses copied them. If they did. Maybe the scribes just copied the stories.

For the reliability of such stories: One Norwegian reporter told of his experience in Oslo downtown, at Karl Johan street - a pedestrian street where you see a lot of strange fellows. Preachers are common, there are most of them on Saturdays. One of them told claimed that he could heal this guy with a crippled foot by prayer and touching the foot with his hands. So he started an intense session of prayer and shouting, and stroked the crippled foot again and again. But he had to conclude that a man cannot demand anything from God, God shows his healing power when He thinks it appropriate. Maybe next time, God will heal the crippled foot.

That is not the major point, it comes now: This reporter was out on Karl Johan street the following Saturday. There was a young girl who he recognized from a week back. The girl was up on a stand, witnessing the wonder she had seen Saturday a week ago, where a man with a crippled foot had been healed by prayer and laying of hands, right before her eyes! Hallelujah! Praise God who can do such wonders!

If it happens in our time, a sunny Saturday in downtown Oslo, it sure could have happened 2000 years ago. I am not talking about a crippled foot being healed. I am talking about believers so convinced that the healing will take place that they see it before their eyes even though all the non-believers witnessing the same event see that there was no healing.

With so many of the Jesus-stories being well known tales of holy persons long before the time of Jesus, I am not one to take all the tales of the bible scribes at face value.

BernardIE5317 wrote:
1st i presume the Bible has already been translated into every known language

Probably but you should also note that there are different versions of the 'Bible'.

And that is just the standard one as well. There are, for example, picture book bibles.

jschell wrote:
There are, for example, picture book bibles.

Those tend to be fun. I always look up the a few things, e.g. from The Flood: Do the pictures reveal that the lions were homosexual? A surprising fraction of picture book bibles do. When they enter the Arc two by two, both the lions have impressingly large manes. From the fact that we do have lions today, we can conclude that God doesn't limit single-sex procreation to humans. (Doing it with males is somewhat more difficult than with females, but other religions also tell of creatures born of a male.)

A second thing I use to check: David is quite often shown as a tiny little kid, even though he had been Saul's arms-bearer for some time before the fight with Goliath. Trying to imagine him carrying King Saul's weapons makes me smile. (I have never seen a picture bible showing this cute, usually yellow-haired little kid, going from one corpse to the other of the 200 soldiers he has slain, sexually molesting the corpses, cutting off the pieces asked of him to get Saul's daughter as a wife. The thought of that little kid being so eager for a wife that he kills twice as many philistines as was asked of him, may be considered funny by itself.)

Many other old testament stories I look for are never pictured. Like the secret meetings between David and Jonathan, or Solomon dancing naked for the servant girls. Or in Numbers 31, how the soldier determine which young girls "have not known man", and can be brought back home for whatever purpose, rather than being killed. Or in 2 Samuel 2, where Abner and Joab create a little entertainment for themselves by each calling up 12 of their warriors, having them stab each other to death before Abner and Joab - for some reason, that is never pictured in the illustrated bibles.

Numerous other dramatic scenes are never pictured in these picture bibles. Some are pictured, but in a way not consistent with the words of the bible. The most typical is wherever the word 'naked' is used: The picture interpretation usually makes me think that as soon as I take my woolen sweater off, I am stark naked, by those standards.

Getting close to Christmas: Numerous picture bibles show the star over the stable, and the wise men by the newborn child in the manger. The bible cannot substantiate anything like that. Matthew tells about the star shining over the house where Joseph and Mary were living in Bethlehem, when Herod was king, so it must have been 4 BCE at the very latest. The stable story, by Luke, says nothing of wise men or star, but of travelling Joseph and Mary, to an enrollment taken under Qurinius, who entered the position in year 6 CE, so it must have been at least 10 years later. The illustrators merge those two stories into one in their pictures.

As do a lot of others. Noone seems to care about the obvious conflicts between the two nativity stories. They have about zero overlap and significant conflicts (e.g. the genealogy of the child) but we create myths outside the bible and stick to them, hoping that as few as possible will look up the real sources to see that they simply don't match.

trønderen wrote:
that the lions were homosexual? A surprising fraction of picture book bibles do. When they enter the Arc two by two, both the lions have impressingly large manes.

Ok...that is funny. I never even thought of it that way! lol.

trønderen wrote:
Numerous picture bibles show the star over the stable,...

Well to be fair though I can't imagine a 'star' being over any building. One might travel say half a world to get a star above ones head but I suspect there is going to be a very large area which it is over all of it.

out of my curiosity Rose | [Rose]

diligent hands rule....

thank you for your kind reply . may i inquire further and ask what precisely is there to be curious about . are you curious perhaps of Russian literature / history / language / pseudo-science or astrology in particular and if so why . i beg your kind indulgence .
thank you kindly

try to see if there is anything I don't know...

diligent hands rule....

i will assume it was a typo and so "trying" was intended . if you wish to try to see if there is something you do not know may i inquire why chose to study Russian astrology . why not Russian Quantum Mechanics or Russian Mathematics .

I know for sure that the farthest distance that I've ever been from any other human being is
3 miles. I can't be entirely sure, but it could be as many as 20-30 miles.

What about you?

Try Australia, we have some of the most remote roads in the world... I have driven on the Barrier Highway[^] to Adelaide. There is not a lot to see... Photos[^]

Graeme

"I fear not the man who has practiced ten thousand kicks one time, but I fear the man that has practiced one kick ten thousand times!" - Bruce Lee

I remember driving from Waga Waga to Adelaide and the road was empty and straight as an arrow for mile after mile. I was ruminating what would happen if the car broke down, when I saw a Rolls Phantom in the back mirror and, soon after, it disappeared in front of me. Than I realized: I would travel in style Smile | :)

Mircea

Well I'm about 8,000 miles away from some guy in China right now.

And in 1969 I was about 250K Miles away from the crew of Apollo 11.

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

modified 16-Dec-23 16:39pm.

Probably less than a km.

(Israel is a crowded country)

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

Have been or would like to be? Smile | :)

As the aircraft designer said, "Simplicate and add lightness".
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If you go alone on several day mountain trips, it can be hard to tell. You don't know if there are people in the cabins you see in the distance. Down in the valley behind the mountain a car may be passing by on the road. I wouldn't know, and it would be insignificant.

I guess that the loneliest place where I have been all alone was in between the two huge sheets of ice making up the Svartisen glacier in the north of Norway, directly under the polar circle. In direct line-of-sight, the nearest road was about 15 km away - but that would be across the glacier. For all practical purposes, the nearest point were I could be sure to find another human was about 20 km away, if you don't mind crossing a glacier. If you prefer to walk on dry land, you would have at least a 25 km walk.

There might have been other mountain walkers in the same area, but I didn't see anyone, didn't talk to any other human for a full week. I still have a longing back to that area, but it seems like I am now unable to build up the physical strength to repeat that mountain walk.

Not far enough. Sigh | :sigh:

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