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Tell me about OLD 79 next month
I have been going to reach out to you about a 3D print part
waiting till the remodel might be completed
Still too cold to woodwork here so no rush
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Yeah whenever you get ready PM me, be glad to help.
Definition of a burocrate; Delegate, Take Credit, shift blame.
PartsBin an Electronics Part Organizer - Release Version 1.3.1 JaxCoder.com
Latest Article: EventAggregator
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Hi All,
I have been given the task (read 'saddle with') of reverse engineering and modifying a Siemens conveyor system. The thing uses a version of Ladder Logic (if you don't know it's a Programming system that was designed to be easy to read, I think we all know what that creates). I used a simple form Allen-Bradley form back at college (many moons ago!) I appear to have lost all reference I had for it. The situation is the system works, I don't want to risk breaking it. So if anyone has a reference it would be very nice!
Glenn
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I just went back to 1982. As an EE, my first job was as an equipment engineer, and I had to keep 3 machines running on the production line. We did a lot of ladder logic, relays, etc. The first thought I have is "simulator." PLCs are the children of ladder logic, so I would start poking around places like this: Online PLC Ladder Logic Simulator: Learn & practice coding![^]
One warning I would give you - nothing is ever standard. I've had to support machines that were 30 yo with controllers that were 15 yo. Your doc is going to be a photocopied manual that may or may not be accurate.
I'm actually jealous.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Hmmm, Nothing is standard, badly photocopied manuals, like the 80's Home PC! (Commodore VIC20 - 64, Spectrum 48k rubber mat). So in other words hack it until it works... I can do that.
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yep, been there and done that. Have about 6" of paper manuals sitting on a shelf for an old NC machine I support. Years ago, I paid to have the product documentation scanned and converted to PDF.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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I started to do some LAD stuff for a Rockwell system we used. This was about 10-12 years ago. I never got very deep. I did a DuckDuckGo search and found these Siemens ladder logic documentation[^]. The first link[^]
Seems promising. Probably not your equipment, but it might help bring back memories.
HTH.
P.S. I'm sure you've already searched and didn't find what you need, so feel free to ignore me. 
Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than master of one.
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The Siemens stuff is odd, Siemens web site is very awkward to navigate, you need to login to get access to bits and can be awkward and is generally awkward to use... I point people to it as a "don't do this" example.
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Their website is the worst.
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If only they were similar to these binary load lifters I have...
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what?
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Hmm Sigourney Weaver reference?
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Glenn,
The latest Siemens PLC development tool is called TIA (Totally Integrated Automation). It is a free download and has a 14 day demo license. It also includes full help files. I think its at v17 or v18.
If you don't find what you need elsewhere, this might be an avenue to get there.
BTW: Previous to TIA they used Step 7 (v5.x) and it had the same free d/l, demo and help system concept. It might be more appropriate if you're dealing with "old" logic. Not sure if its still available from Siemens.
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Aah version 18! The PLC wouldn't run if I compiled in 18, I had to use 17. Also have you tried the Siemens site for help it's a nightmare! try to create an account it opens Outlook if you have open already, in Browser tab. Has the font set too small to read at a distance. Also which genius created the acronym TIA for Totally Integrated Automation, we have another pointless TLA...
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Yup - been a Siemens customer for ~25 years. Step 7 from the start and TIA for the last 5 years.
As for the Siemens site being a nightmare... 100% agree but its way better than it used to be. 
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v17.x.x
fgs1963 wrote: It also includes full help files.
And they actually are not that bad.
fgs1963 wrote: It might be more appropriate if you're dealing with "old" logic.
Not only might, should. There are "breaking" changes in some important libraries
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Hi Glen,
I can't find a real question from you - no matter ...
I would say that I'm very familiar especially with Siemens-PLC's - I'm working with it the last 35 years ... so if I could help you ...?
Independant : there is a very good PLC-Forum in Germany (www.SPS-Forum.de) where you can ask questions (normally in German but English is also possible) which I would recommend to you ...
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Hi,
Sorry about that don't really have any questions yet, before I open the box I kinda like to know I have access to someone who might know enough to help me shut the box. A pre-emptive cry for help if you like. There are issues that need sorting that aren't directly software linked (like a sensor going into error constantly, the patch cable had come out!). I was more after someone I could ask if my Ladder Logic was correct. It seems from the way it's set up, it won't need as much alteration as I thought. One line going a speed when called via a push button, another line going the opposite way when called by a button and a roller table non-powered between them. At the moment it looks like we can just flatten the square and go from there with no alteration (until the ammount of room is changed so we either need to lengthen it or shorten it)
Thanks
Glenn 
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So let's make it short ... if you have any specific questions feel free to ask me - or do it inside the Forum I suggested to you (where I am one of the Moderators).
Independant - I'm quite sure that you could be helped to solve your issue ... but for that it's necessary to habe the relevant source-code.
But some question from me :
- which kind of Siemens-SW are you using ?
- is that code written in Step7-Classic or TIA ?
- do you know that normally you could switch from Ladder (KOP) to Instructions-List (AWL - sorry I only know the German words) or Function-Plan (FUP)
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I think we are using TIA version 17... if that makes sense, the ladder appears inside funtion blocks (which confused me!) I will get over to the Forum you suggested, I know the registering process can take a little time.
The source code is a collection of three files (does that sound right?). I'm having to pick up a project that got part done, then Covid happened and the guilty party (person that had all the knowledge) left!
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glennPattonWork3 wrote: the ladder appears inside function blocks (which confused me!)
It's actually pretty cool and very functional (pardon the pun). It's been like this for decades so Siemens was actually ahead of the curve compared to many PLCs. Here are a few basics that might help.
OB1 is the "main" cyclic function that loops endlessly.
OB100 is a "first scan" function that runs one time at PLC power-on before OB1 starts looping.
OB## are interrupt functions that only occur when a fault occurs (hardware or software).
FC## are functions with inputs and outputs but no internal storage
FB## are functions with inputs, outputs and internal persistent storage (called STATS)
DB## are data blocks that maintain persistent storage. Every FB call requires an associated DB but DBs can also stand alone.
With "Multi-Instance" calls you can call an FB multiple times. Each instance has it's own unique inputs, outputs and DB (persistent storage). Think of it as a class in C++.
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I can help you out with that, Glenn. I am maybe not as good as Ralf aobve, but I am pretty good too. Give me a PM here and I will answer you per mail, where we can continue writing or arrange a live conversation
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
modified 22-Mar-24 2:57am.
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Hi,
Thanks for that, I was having a minor panic attack! I have been billed as an expert, I am not, I have used Allen-Bradley (strangely while I was doing a contract at Siemens). Before that a course at college too long ago.
I have access to experts Yayy CP!
Glenn
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I even tried a time ago to open a section about it in the forums, articles. But there was not a big resonance and I dropped the idea.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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