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Re: A stint in the Support Dept... Ravi Bhavnani31-Oct-04 15:30 Ravi Bhavnani 31-Oct-04 15:30  Michael P Butler wrote: the experience has made me a better developer. I still find it regrettable that todays developers starting out don't get the same treatment. I think we'd have better software if they did. Aye! /ravi My new year's resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | Freeware | Music ravib@ravib.com Constantly Nick Seng25-Oct-04 15:02 Nick Seng 25-Oct-04 15:02  ....in my previous job. I used to work for a Software House, and the culture here was more or less "one employee does all". We did everything from getting requirements from clients, showing product presentations, Systems setup, the whole she -bang. And oh yeah, ocassionaly Code. I kinda miss it some times. "if you vote me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - Michael P. Butler. Re: Constantly Sean Rock25-Oct-04 21:31 Sean Rock 25-Oct-04 21:31  Nick i definitely know the feeling (hence the suggestion for this poll). Nick Seng wrote: I used to work for a Software House, and the culture here was more or less "one employee does all". We did everything from getting requirements from clients, showing product presentations, Systems setup, the whole she -bang. And oh yeah, ocassionaly Code. Re: Constantly Michael P Butler26-Oct-04 4:55 Michael P Butler 26-Oct-04 4:55  Nick Seng wrote: I used to work for a Software House, and the culture here was more or less "one employee does all". We did everything from getting requirements from clients, showing product presentations, Systems setup, the whole she -bang. And oh yeah, ocassionaly Code. I've had to do much the same for most of my working life. It is valuable experience, knowing that you can turn your hand to anything when the situation requires. Although I'd like to forget my brief stint as a trainer. Several care homer owners in a room, with me giving lectures on how to do various tasks on the computer system. It makes me cringe to think about it. Strutting around like a geography teacher. Gagh. Still I was only 19 and didn't know much better. Still it taught me patience, which is a very valuable trait when dealing directly with clients. Michael CP Blog [^] Occasionally Jörgen Sigvardsson25-Oct-04 11:27 Jörgen Sigvardsson 25-Oct-04 11:27  But hopefully closer to Never real soon now. -- Weiter, weiter, ins verderben. Wir müssen leben bis wir sterben. Just back from a client... Bamaco225-Oct-04 8:55 Bamaco2 25-Oct-04 8:55  I really should not have gone over there, but the boss asked me to, "just in case", so I went. I got to the office at 08:30 this morning, I have not started to code yet and its 15:00... I prefer to deal with machines, compilers and that sort of thing. I sometime get "quiet" periods, where I only go once every few months to clients, now I am in a "rush" period, going almost weekly. Real Plessure. sreejith ss nair25-Oct-04 3:23 sreejith ss nair 25-Oct-04 3:23  This year i got good employee certficate form my office. I felt so very happy. And i thought, that is the real satisfaction that what i got. But this is nothing if we get a excellent feedback from client's who uses our software. I realise this ultimate plessure and happiness when my client comment "Good Work Sreejith". Sreejith Nair [ My Articles ] Internal Clients vs External Clients Nitron25-Oct-04 2:38 Nitron 25-Oct-04 2:38  similar to what Marc mentions below, I have "internal" clients and "external" clients. from a development perspective, the internal clients use in-house proprietary tools that i develop. it's like a company within a company really. Now rarely in my line of work would I meet the external customer. Our requirements are usually something along the lines of: "here, make this fly." Oh, and: "here, make sure that if this breaks, it can still fly." ~Nitron. ññòòïðïðB A start Re: Internal Clients vs External Clients perlbot28-Oct-04 4:30 perlbot 28-Oct-04 4:30  Same here. Currently, I support a tool I wrote that is used internally in several company locations. Much more satisfying than several previous jobs I had, where as a non-developer I got to go to customer sites and be the liason between irate customers and the developers "back-home" who got them that way All the time Michael P Butler25-Oct-04 1:56 Michael P Butler 25-Oct-04 1:56  I have to. I work for myself When I was just a grunt programmer. I hated having to deal with clients. Now I love it. It is the second favourite part of my job. It helps a great deal to get a feel for business you are creating a solution for. Both the senior people and the ones who will actually work with my software. It certainly builds up your communication skills and I've found it has helped me build better software. Michael CP Blog [^] Re: All the time Phil.Benson25-Oct-04 23:35 Phil.Benson 25-Oct-04 23:35  Yes all the time. Although I do not work for myself, I´m the only PC developer in the company(the others are all embedded), and I have to do all the coaching and training for our systems and the software.(being a native English speaker is is an advantage)I think it´s great, the best of both worlds, lots of traveling AND hacking/developing away. I can only agree that it builds up your communictaion skills, and you get a better "feeling" while developing the software for what the customer actually needs/wants. bum... and I thought I´d got rid of all the bugs A more general definition of the term "client" Marc Clifton25-Oct-04 1:52 Marc Clifton 25-Oct-04 1:52  If you think about it, anyone who asks you for something, or to whom you've promised something to, is your client. Your coworker, your boss, etc. Clients aren't just the people at the end of the food chain (or the beginning, depending on your perspective). This is something that TQM (Total Quality Management) teaches, and even though TQM has been slammed a lot, when I worked as an employee I found it really helpful to view the people that I work with as clients. And it's a two way street too--I am somebody else's client. It helps you to communicate expectations and implementation plans, to document (horrors!) and more formalize communication, and in general to be more professional with regards to how you communicate with your coworkers. Marc MyXaml Advanced Unit Testing Re: A more general definition of the term "client" jeremypettit28-Oct-04 7:50 jeremypettit 28-Oct-04 7:50  Agreed. I build a lot of internal stuff for our company. We are a service company (healthcare), but my function is for supporting the company, not necessarily the service part of it. Most of the time, I meet with those who deal with medical professionals outside of our company, and a few times a year, I meet with them as well. So in my view, not only are patients a client, but so is the staff at hospitals and clinics. One could argue about whether or not the people in the business office, marketing, accounting or chiefs in your company are your customers, but they are often your intended recipient of your work. Visit http://www.outsourceapro.com and find out about becoming a developer in one of our development teams for some of our future consulting projects.

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