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Sorry this was meant to be a reply, not a new thread. It was in response to a few immature remarks by the user 12BOB13 a few threads down.
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StevenpWalsh wrote: Sorry this was meant to be a reply, not a new thread. It was in response to a few immature remarks by the user 12BOB13 a few threads down.
I tend to ignore such remarks. I already wasted too much time feeding the trolls... 
Behind every great black man...
... is the police. - Conspiracy brother
Blog[^]
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I've read all the comments in here. Anyone who thinks this survey is valid is smoking crack.
At the VERY least, country should be identified, but to be accurate, the geographical regions (down to no more than 200 sq miles) should be identified.
The sub-title of this survery:
'Here's a chance to compare what your making with those of your compatriots. Time to ask the boss for a raise?'
What?!!! So the purpose of this survey is for all the developers that work in the United States (and a few other countries) are supposed to tell their boss that we make too much money!
Whatever. I love codeproject but this survey is rediculous.
- Paul Brower
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Paul Brower wrote: So the purpose of this survey is for all the developers that work in the United States (and a few other countries) are supposed to tell their boss that we make too much money!
The bosses now have a chance to realize that they can get economically more viable options if they think beyond their borders 
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I agree that this servey isn't very scientific, not like these serveys are anyway, but the pay depends so much on qualifications and the exchange rate of your country's currency...
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Or are some of them just selecting that option for fun? It is easy to click the over $200,000 radio button, regardless of your salary.
Pumk1nh3ad illustrates that Intelligent Design oft goes awry. - Ed Gadziemski
You did'nt get it. I over estimated you. - Josh Gray
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By the same token, maybe some people clicked the 20K or less because they are feel guilty? <g>
In general, it survey results follows the general industry rates. The old rule is that only 1% of the programmers out there are any good anyway, and they are well paid. I wouldn't call them just programmers, but software or system engineers, team leaders and/or project managers with most likely a college education, 10+ years of broad experience. These guys a common attribute: they know how to solve problems and they help bring in money into the company. They are not just consuming money.
I'm not surprise to see such a low pay (20K) for the majority. This serves to confirm there are a lot of people out there that a self taught with no formal training. They might have a computer related job, support maybe, but not in any significant programming or engineerng project which puts you more in the middle tier.
What isn't shown is the international segments. That could also explain a higher 20K rate.
Hector Santos, CTO
Santronics Software, Inc.
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1% only? Maybe in your area! I've seen many many good programmers (and other IT "experts") that were very good. Regardless, I don't know anyone working in "the industry" that makes under 50k at the very least (in Canada).
I think you're 100% wrong with your claims of "99% of programmers sucks, so they deserve to be in the 0-20k bracket". It doesn't confirm ANYTHING about education either. Ever heard of outsourcing? Right! Pretty much everyone in that category will be in that 0-20k bracket. That's the only logical explanation (that and perhaps students learning programming).
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My question is: is this survey meant only for US citizens ?
If not, what is the point in comparing salaries of persons in different countries ?
I am employed in India and getting a very decent and high salary. But still less than $20000 p.a. I may be having a better life standard than an average American software developer. It is wrong to compare my salary with that of an average American software developer, without taking into consideration the conversion rates between dollar and Indian rupee as well as the relative purchasing powers of dollar and Indian rupee.
May I know what this survey result is going to serve ?
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try reading a little.
I doubt its trying to be cruel. in a country where a lot of people live under blue tarps (india), 20k US is a lot of money. in a country where the "poverty" line is around 14k (USA), 20k is not a lot more than that. seeing as how there is no option for specifying country, I dont think it was meant to measure a country's national average.
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Madhu Kampurath wrote: I am employed in India and getting a very decent and high salary.
Madhu Kampurath wrote: But still less than $20000 p.a.
Hello Madhu
This is exactly why several highly talented and extremely well qualified Indian software developers end up being under-paid.
If you are given 15K USD (1/4th what the average US developer would be earning), you are happy because that converts into 675,000 INR. Now, while this would definitely be higher than what non-IT people make in India, and you would be able to live a relatively comfortable life, as a salary it still sucks.
A Dell laptop that costs 1500 USD in the USA would cost 1800 USD in India. For an US developer, 1500 is 2.5% of his annual income, for an Indian dev, that's more than 10%. A Toyota Corolla costs about 14K USD in the USA and about 27K USD in India. For an American, that car costs less than 1/4 of his annual pay; for the Indian, it's 2 years of his salary.
I've worked in India and I've worked abroad.
When people say that cost of living is cheaper in India, by "living" they mean food and accommodation and other basic needs. They don't take into account anything extra - like computers, smart devices, cell phones, mp3 players, automobiles, electronic gadgets etc.
You could work for one of the best paying companies in India and still struggle to keep yourself stocked with the latest fancy geek-gadgets; alternatively, you could work for an average US company and happily live life as you want to.
Please don't reply back saying that not everyone wants cool gadgets. I used gadgets as one trivial example. Take travel as an alternative example.
On an Indian salary (even one as high as you earn), do you think you can afford a 3 week Europe vacation with your family of 4 or more? Most Americans would be able to afford that with 6-12 months of their savings.
Of course, if you want to live in a smaller dimension, and think that that's the best way to live life, good for you - it may actually keep you a lot happier than otherwise. But once you realize that, the world is not just one country, and that there are so many other wonderful places to visit, you'll quickly realize the importance of money.
I am not so much of a greedy ass when it comes to money, but there are things I want to do in life - travel around the world, visit 3-4 dozen countries, keep myself stocked with the best and fastest computers and geek-gadgets - and money is the only way to do all that. I won't go to any extreme for meeting that requirement, but I will go quite a good distance to achieve that.
So, this poll is very valid - and trying to factor country-of-residence into it is totally pointless and goes against the purpose of the poll.
Nish
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Well said. When I was out in Thailand between November 2003 and February 2004 I was astonished at how much electrical goods cost there.
It would not be an exaggeration to say that I could often find a source at close to half the price back in the UK.
Anna ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
Riverblade Ltd - Software Consultancy Services
Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch
"Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart"
- A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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You have highly mistaken by my comment.
Again, you are trying to compare country of US with that of India. But, for what purpose? Thw word "cheap" is a highly relative term across countries. But, within a country, it is relevant.
My aim is not to compare the cost of livings between India and US. But, to show the uselessness of this comparison.
I am not undermining the importance of money. But, the difference between the money earned in India and that earned in US is caused only because of the very large exchange rate existing between the currencies of these countries. What I am telling is these type os surveys should consider this fact also.
BTW, let me tell some irrelevant things also.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: A Dell laptop that costs 1500 USD in the USA would cost 1800 USD in India.
My laptop costed me only $1000. (Compaq Presario V 2324, 1.6 GHz, 256 MB RAM, 14 " display, 40GB HDD, Built-in MM)
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: On an Indian salary (even one as high as you earn), do you think you can afford a 3 week Europe vacation with your family of 4 or more? Most Americans would be able to afford that with 6-12 months of their savings.
Why is it like that ? It is beacuse there is a huge number of persons going for such tours and hence airlines can reduce their costs. This is slowly coming to India also. The number of people going for tours to other countries is increasing like anything nowadays. The rates are coming down also.
The another reason for this is the big difference between the spending cultures of India and US. I can very well go for a Europe tour every year provided my savings will fall drastically. I have read that an average American has got only $250 as their savings at a time.
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The average cost of a house in the city I live in (Portland, OR) is now well in excess of $250,000. A gallon of milk costs $3-$5. At a $20,000 per year salary here one would almost literally be living in the street.
But Portland is actually inexpensive by US urban standards. I had the pleasure of living in New York City for a few months in 2000-2001. The rent on the apartment there was $7,000 per month. It wasn't a great apartment. It was small by most standards (1200 sqr. ft.), old and loud.
I can live in perpetual vacation in Mexico (staying in a hotel, eating in restaurants) for less than it costs to work in the US. By quiting my job, selling the house and cars and moving to a hotel in Puerto Vallarta I would actually accrue wealth faster.
If you're a US professional earning six-figures and hold any allusions of being worth it, you're blind. We aren't "worth it". We just happen to live in the place that benefited most grandly from the past 100 years of natural resource exploitation.
Proximity counted much more in the past than it does now (sic. outsourcing), so you better get used to the fact that 90% of this generation's kids are going to be "more equal" to the rest of the world than our generation.
Also get used to the idea that is is a very good thing. We're going to sacrifice a little for the world to gain a lot.
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compiler wrote: The average cost of a house in the city I live in (Portland, OR) is now well in excess of $250,000.
I hope that wasn't a complaint, because I think that's a heck of a deal.
In San Jose, California, the median house price is just above $700,000. The median condo price is around $450,000. 
Hmmm... is it time to move to Oregon?
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Joshua Quick wrote: I hope that wasn't a complaint, because I think that's a heck of a deal.
In San Jose, California, the median house price is just above $700,000. The median condo price is around $450,000.
Hmmm... is it time to move to Oregon?
How about the Dallas / Fort Worth area of Texas? If you can live with a little more heat in the Summer and a little more cold in the winter, a slight chance of getting blown away by a tornado, no ocean or mountains even remotely close, and virtually no chance of an earthqauke the median hope price is about 140K, with no income tax, though property taxes are fairly high. I live in a very nice 4000 sq ft home on a 1/3 acre lot 4 miles from my downtown office on a hill, overlooking that skyline. It's not a gated community but has one of the lowest crime rates in the city (rarely more than an auto burglery per month or so) and is so quite it's almost scary. It was built in 1962. I bought it about 4 years ago for 160K (less than two years salary).
My dream location for life would be San Diego, but as I get older I have come to realize I love so much better here than I ever could there because what little additional salary I made there would be eaten up by housing costs, for a much smaller house. etc. and I could never afford to live anywhere there I would actually want to live anyhow!
--Robert
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I guess nobody expects a fresh CS graduate to earn the same amount as an experienced one.
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Yes, this is also a very relevant point.
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I have to agree, I live and work in Germany, in a small "provicial city" where I get (I purposly do not say earn, I feel I earn more!) a decent salary, but compared to a larger city (for example Muenich) I get peanuts, and would not be able to afford even a very basic flat, so even within the same country, this is not really a real comparison. Therefore I would suggest (like Anna-Jayne already has), not only the ability to enter the Country, but also the region where one lives, though I suppose this would spring the possibilities of the polling software for the board.
If this poll does show promise (regarding the feedback etc.), perhaps an extra formular that could be completed, sent in and looked at. Maybe this would be an interesting community project!
As an after thought C´T , a German IT magazine does one nearly every year, and throws up some interesting results.Just food for thought...
mfg
Phil
bum... and I thought I´d got rid of all the bugs 
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I agree to this also. Salary earned will always have many influencing factors and the cost of living at the place where we live is the most deciding factor.
I cannot ask for a rise of my salary simply because an american counter part is getting an amount higher than that of me (after conversion into rupee). But, if the cost of living in my place is increasing and the quality of my work is improving (and I start to undertake more responsibility), I can ask for a rise.
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Hence the title : What is your annual salary in $US?
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Is because I'm still a student. Despite my urge to vote in the poll every week, I must pass this one. Wish there had been an option 'Not applicable'
Behind every great black man...
... is the police. - Conspiracy brother
Blog[^]
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Well you could vote on the "less than $20,000 a year" and make everyone else feel better that their percentile ranking is going up
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