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I would prefer to keep that in the private sector. Let reputable companies and organizations (i.e. mysql) create their own certification. Industry is generally self-regulating in that respect. If someone is certified by Oracle or Microsoft, you know that they have knowledge about the system in question. If, however, someone were certified by "Joe's SQL Certifications and Pawn Shop", no one would take it seriously.
I also think that computer science education needs to be reconsidered. My undergrad degree was a four year waste of time. I probably could have learned all of that material in a year or less. Furthermore, I spent two years on general education that my high school had already taught me. Interesting new survey question: Do you have a degree and do you actually find it useful?
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Degrees are useful for imigration purposes.
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland
Colib and ilikecameras.
K(arl) wrote:
oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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So is marriage 
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Indeed. I am weighing up which is the easier route 
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland
Colib and ilikecameras.
K(arl) wrote:
oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Paul Watson wrote: Indeed. I am weighing up which is the easier route
Get a degree, immigrate, marry a citizen, become a citizen. Isn't that an age-old trick?
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Depends what you want, citizenship or work permits. Citizenship though would be nice, but I can get that by marriage faster than by getting a degree.
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland
Colib and ilikecameras.
K(arl) wrote:
oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Go for a degree, marrage is a one way street!
bum... and I thought I´d got rid of all the bugs 
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I have to agree with you on that. The only time I really wished I had a degree was when I considered emmigration.
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How sure are you about that? 
SkyWalker
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Very. Governments are lagging behind corporates and require degrees for immigration purposes. Without a degree you will find emmigrating a lot more difficult.
regards,
Paul Watson
Ireland
Colib and ilikecameras.
K(arl) wrote:
oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Oh, I see.
What about that: you have a very high degree, you already managed to get hired in your dream country, and after a while they tell you they do not give a penny on your degree as they do not like to pay more for more educated people?
(It's just a question concerning, let's say, imaginary characters  )
SkyWalker
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They don't do it already ?
Well you actually have to choices:
1) quit the job and find a new one
2) continue working for less money
Generally speaking degree doesn't mean a thing. Degree in anything. I can easily go and buy a bunch of diplomas if I needed to. The knowledge of that subject - now that's what matters.
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Human stupidity is infinite.
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It should matter! Maybe some people could find in that the answer to the "classical" question: can Europe compete against the US?
... and I agree with your ... dots
SkyWalker
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The "classical" question is really really stupid and I can give you a lot of reasons why.
But I don't agree that the actuall degree should matter. As I said it's mainly a paper which is supposed to accompony (or accomponie, forgot how it's spelled) your knowledge.
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Human stupidity is infinite.
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No, the question is not stupid at all.
And the paper you are talking about is normally supposed to certify your knowledge in a specific area (if it was issued in an honest way). This should be the rule, and not the exception
SkyWalker
-- modified at 8:42 Monday 12th December, 2005
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Mircea Puiu wrote: And the paper you are talking about is normally supposed to certify your knowledge in a specific area
See the text in bold 
Mircea Puiu wrote: No, the question is not stupid at all.
It is stupid just because if you'll take a look at the amount of Europeans who immigrated to the US you'll find out that there's hell lot many of 'em. And I mean the bright minds. I'll just provide an example from military industry. Sikorsky.
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Human stupidity is infinite.
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and what have those immigrants to the US to do with the question regarding the competition being stupid ?!
SkyWalker
-- modified at 8:49 Monday 12th December, 2005
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Maybe the fact that half of US citizens (ok, not half, exxagerating) are actually Europeans with US passports ?
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Human stupidity is infinite.
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People with US passport are Americans.
People with EU related passport are not.
The companies are competing against each other. And here you have to see the difference in management approaches.
By the way, have you ever worked in EU or in the US? That could give you a better perception of what I'm trying to say
SkyWalker
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Neither in EU (if you mean European Union) nor in US. I'm pretty much happy in my part of non-EU Europe which I hope won't be EUized for at least 10 years.
Oh and my main degree is in managment so I know the differences 
The thing is that US management is suitable for US companies and only them. Same goes to Japaneese managment. As for EU...well there's no such thing as Eropean managment because all EU countries are different. Try comparing Spain and Germany for example.
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Human stupidity is infinite.
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You are probably a very young manager, no offense
And believe me, I was speaking (in some ways) like you some 6 years ago.
Living in the middle of the problems means a lot!
Do not understand me in a wrong way. I am neither making loby for the EU, nor for the US.
Just curious Why are you saying: "I hope won't be EUized for at least 10 years" ?
SkyWalker
-- modified at 9:20 Monday 12th December, 2005
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Mircea Puiu wrote: You are probably a very young manager, no offense
No offence taken just because it is so
Mircea Puiu wrote: Living in the middle of the problems means a lot!
Completly agree.
Mircea Puiu wrote: Why are you saying: "I hope won't be EUized for at least 10 years" ?
Because I don't think my country is ready to become a equitable partner to EU, not a resource base or another market for EU products. Look at Poland. They strived for EU for so long and just as they've joined their agriculture turned to be in a deep ass. Also the level of actual income of a lot of people here is quite low. 10% of population hold 90% of money while the other 90% of population holds 10% of money
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Human stupidity is infinite.
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What would you say finding out that, actually, more than 75% of the population in (almost) any EU contry is not happy at all with being part of the EU? And they have their own reasons. But what to do now? Some minds wanted something and decided (long time ago) to build the EU. After a while, people found out that they were not actually knowing what was going on (as those minds did not ask them at all). The project seemed to be too complex for those minds. (If I were a bad guy, I would say, because of their papers certifying their knowledge )
It's hard to manage a family. And much harder to manage a continent.
SkyWalker
-- modified at 9:39 Monday 12th December, 2005
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Mircea Puiu wrote: What would you say finding out that, actually, more than 75% of the population in (almost) any EU contry is not happy at all with being part of the EU?
I'm not surprised by the fact at all. I've shown Poland because it has recently joined and is from Eastern Europe.
Mircea Puiu wrote: If I were a bad guy...
Mind being a bad guy than ? :p
Mircea Puiu wrote: It's hard to manage a family. And much harder to manage a continent.
So true. Fortunatly I neither have a family to manage nor a continent
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Human stupidity is infinite.
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Back to the issue of the original post. I don't think I could ever take a degree in computer science of any sort serious for this reason. Unlike other major degrees I.E. Mathmatics, Physics, Chemistry and other traditional majors; computer science is based solely on the current trends of the market and popularity, which means it is more of a technology, a tool that is used. A degree in practicality is no better then a certification ascribed by a institution with a reputation. Unless these trends can be stabilized into a given set of notation no school will ever be able combine the technology and the theories needed to describe computer science.
nothing
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