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David Cunningham wrote: I do have to say that I'm exceedingly unhappy you feel the quality of the site is going down. We have been working like bandits on new and better features, adding full Git support to articles and allowing them to become full projects along with an amazing developer focused collaborative task management system, and most recently a documentation wiki system for projects.
i think hes referring to the quality of the articles appearing rather that CP itself. And if thats the case i'd agree and i reckon that part of the issue is that CP is casting it's net too wide (my opinion)
Bryce
MCAD
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bryce wrote: i reckon that part of the issue is that CP is casting it's net too wide
In what way? Do you mean: accepting a lesser quality than we should, or accepting articles on article we shouldn't?
I built CodeProject to help me and my fellow addicts programmers share and learn, and as I grow and avoid maturing my journey's taken me way, way off the path I initially set out upon. We've gone from MFC and C++ to ASP, C#, VB, Java and will continue on with node, Ruby, Objective-C, Go, F# and whatever else a dev needs to know to get their job done.
At a quick count I'm dealing with 10 languages or sub-languages across 4 major operating systems day in, day out, and I'm not as knee deep in this as I used to be. That's actually scary (the number of languages, not that I'm not as knee-deep. I know you count that as a blessing)
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris, don't be so touchy. You did the programming community a significant service. We have all benefitted from your hard work.
I suggested that a current CP project was going to produce less-than-desired results. You didn't listen and unfortunately my prediction has been borne out by the quality of the submissions.
My view is that CP is a great site. It does what its founder wanted it to do. But CP is taking off in a strange direction. Maybe you can rein it in.
Anyway, thanks for the site.
Gus Gustafson
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Not being touchy Gus, I'm trying to understand what Ads are blocking your navigation. [Edit: and I'm getting crossed wires here! You responded to my response from Brycey, and I'd like to hear his thoughts since I think his concerns are different from yours]
With regards to the "Current CP Project" do you mean the HTML contest or The Guild?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I had a similar experience whenI went to Waterfox 28.0, where ads begun showing up everywhere, and I mean even in my own web site. Apparently a new extension was added (do not recall full name but it had to do with ads). Removed it and issue went away. Next day, issue is back and so is the extension. Finally was able to return to sanity by turning "Update Add-ons automatically" off and removing the extension.
And I mean everywhere, I (and my users) got popups in input fields!
I wonder if this is what is happening to CP dotheads??
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gggustafson wrote: Chris, don't be so touchy
Neither Chris, nor his response to you, is touchy. That was an insulting statement.
modified 18-Apr-14 15:05pm.
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I'm inclined to disagree about CP casting its net too wide. There are so many technologies out there just in the Microsoft world, that it's next to impossible to even be aware of them all, let alone be knowledgeable about them. I have come to CP both for 101 level information on technologies and for help when I'm having difficulty with some obscure feature of a technology. I'd hate to live with just MSDN as a source of information.
Yes, some articles aren't very well written, but perhaps it's the author's first attempt at writing an article for an audience larger than their coworkers. When I read an article, I also read the comments and I pay attention to the ratings when I search for info on a topic. I have seen people post constructive criticism in the comments and I encourage others to do so.
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David, I do not suggest some nefarious purpose. Just mis-guided.
Let's look at the two pages to which you referred me. In both cases, I enter the pages with a fixed format using IE9 Win7.
Bugs and Suggestions
The first thing I notice is that two collections are displayed: Bugs and Suggestions and The current TODO list. I believe that these two collections should appear on two distinct pages. Note too that at the bottom of Bugs and Suggestions there is the familiar CP page navigation controls for the other pages in Bugs and Suggestions. But following that is a line of inappropriate classification choices, a line of flags, and a line of instructions. What are they for?
I notice is that I cannot collapse items that have sub items under them. It appears that someone "sliced and diced" the format of the Lounge. This causes a problem displaying the whole page. Especially The current TODO list.
When I go down to The current TODO list, at the bottom I see "Displaying 26 tasks out of 39". There is no familiar CP page navigation control to let me view the other 13 tasks. Adding "You can use keyboard shortcuts to navigate" is hardly useful.
I suggest a redesign of the Bugs and Suggestions page that removes these concerns.
Workspaces
On the Workspaces page I find "Connect to GitMachine using your favourite [sic] Git client (XCode, Visual Studio 2013, EGit for Eclipse) and upload your code or clone from a remote repository." I don't use VS 2013. Are you limiting Workspaces to CP members who use VS 2013? I use VS 2008 because it does exactly what I need without bloat.
But I guess that my real question is "Why Workspaces at all?" What unfulfilled need of the CP membership is satisfied by this dubious feature? All I want to do is to click on the Download buttons found in an article.
Gus Gustafson
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gggustafson wrote: I believe that these two collections should appear on two distinct pages
They do. Tasks is on http://www.codeproject.com/tasks.aspx[^] but I slipped Tasks at the bottom of Bugs and Suggestions for purely selfish reasons: it's easier to but and paste between the Bugs and Suggestions discussions and the actual TODO list)
gggustafson wrote: notice is that I cannot collapse items that have sub items under them
In Tasks or the Bugs and suggestions page? The Tasks hierarchy is definitely collapsible. What browser are you using?
gggustafson wrote: When I go down to The current TODO list, at the bottom I see "Displaying 26 tasks out of 39".
The Filter control at the top of Tasks opens this up. Keyboard shortcuts are extremely valuable for some of us, but I understand they aren't for everyone.
gggustafson wrote: I use VS 2008
Try this Git Source Control Provider[^] for VS 2008. There's lots of options for everyone.
As to the Why please see
An Introduction to Workspaces::Git for Windows users[^] and An Introduction to Workspaces::Tasks[^]
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I slipped Tasks at the bottom of Bugs and Suggestions for purely selfish reasons: it's easier to
but [sic] and paste between the Bugs and Suggestions discussions and the actual TODO list.
I think that you have admitted to messing up the web page. Please undo it. That you would do it for personal reasons is immature and unprofessional!
In Tasks or the Bugs and suggestions page? The Tasks hierarchy is definitely collapsible. What
browser are you using?
Please read what I said. IE9 on Win7 in fixed format. And my collapsing issue was with Bugs and Suggestions.
I will look at Git.
Gus Gustafson
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gggustafson wrote: That you would do it for personal reasons is immature and unprofessional!
Seriously? You think that this is a mature response from you? Insulting Chris. If you want to set a site that does exactly what you want, then start one yourself. I think that Chris is allowed a personal indulgence here considering how much work he's done for the community.
modified 17-Apr-14 16:34pm.
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Too bad you didn;t read my earlier response to Chris.
Gus Gustafson
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gggustafson wrote: But I guess that my real question is "Why Workspaces at all?" What unfulfilled need of the CP membership is satisfied by this dubious feature?
Collaboration, I find it brilliant.
I've been working on and off on a project that's simply to big for me. As soon as I have a functional embryo I will let other people in on it and add functionality to the article/project.
gggustafson wrote: All I want to do is to click on the Download buttons found in an article.
You can still do that, cant you?
It's added functionality without any of the old functionality removed. Right?
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gggustafson wrote: Are you limiting Workspaces to CP members who use VS 2013?
I am using GitHub and VS2012. I have not seen GitHub UI yet. I just use shell to do it for me. Works fine. Although, I have not tried VS2008 yet. You may want to give it a try.
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so these arent things that should go in the bug/sugs forum? Seems like it to me.
Elephant elephant elephant, sunshine sunshine sunshine
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David Cunningham wrote: Let us know how we can do that better.
Clickety[^] Please, pretty please. 
/ravi
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gggustafson wrote: I think that the quality of Code Project is going down.
If you are referring to content of CP, then team CP cannot do anything about it. It is members who provide content. If you are referring to the site itself, then as others have mentioned, then bugs and suggestions is the way to go.
As far as advertisements are concerned, they are never obstructing anything. They mostly appear right at top which does not bother me. I use Chrome all the time and have never seen any interference. Which device are you using, BTW? If you are too distracted with advertisements, you can always use AdBlock or something similar that your browser supports.
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d@nish wrote: If you are referring to content of CP, then team CP cannot do anything about it.
Yes, they can. But it will require a larger team, not just volunteers. 
/ravi
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Are you referring to hired moderators? I don't think that is a good idea for a business that gives away everything for free to users.
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No, full-time editors.
/ravi
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Yes but that would really help with grammar isn't it? I personally wouldn't like and editor to change the content of whatever I post.
I believe OP is after quality of CP itself. Now that is something I do not agree with. Yes, there are more things I want to be added but what exists now, just works. I have not faced anything that OP has mentioned yet. May be it has something to do with browser he uses. I use chrome and never seen advertisement issues.
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d@nish wrote: I use chrome and never seen advertisement issues.
Me too. I don't have a problem with the ads.
- I'm suggesting is the bar for entry of articles and tips (esp. tips) be raised. Full-time technical editors can help here.
- I've found myself using SO for answers to questions. IMHO, the combination of Quick Answers and the language specific Discussion Boards at CP is confusing. Also, QA is flooded with requests for code from people who seem to be simply seeking a solution to their work or school assignment. This isn't tolerated at SO. IMHO, the quality of questions (and their answers) at SO far exceeds that at CP.
On the flip side, I don't think there's any real competition to CP's treasure trove of articles.
/ravi
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See when it comes to QA and getting answers, SO is hands down better. It does not have that welcoming feel to it, but hell, you get answers. Mostly, I have noticed, ridiculous answers get accepted by OP. Still, CP is nowhere a competition there.
When it comes to articles, it is a different story. No one and I mean no one can compete with this source. Now, OP might not be a beginner and is just pissed off with how to write hello world type articles. But then, OP is missing the whole point of this article base.
Your point of having editors is great if they are just after language. But content, no. I believe, community drives CP and let them come up with ideas and hence articles rather a group of people governing everything.
I smell dislike on OP's part with site itself which, I would say again, is unacceptable to me. We all have worked on programs and we know how easy and difficult it is. Think before you post is what I would suggest.
He also rants about TODO list. Now, as a business owner, I would give a rats ass about telling people in detail what I am working on. Here, story is different. Team CP actually tells us what they are up to. To me, it is more than an account at some website. It is that feeling of collaboration that makes CP special. Even if you do not contribute, that feeling prevails as long you are not that "do my work for free" types.
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d@nish wrote: Your point of having editors is great if they are just after language. But content, no.
I meant vetting overall article quality, not controlling the subject of the article. All I'm suggesting is a higher bar for content acceptance will be a good thing.
/ravi
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