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"You want fries with that?"
I'm here all week, folks! Try the veal, it's to die for.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I was getting prices for dev tools for my possible new job, and I couldn't believe my eyes - Visual Studio 2013 Ultimate about $13.3k. HOLY CRAP!
I remember when the most expensive MSDN subscription was just $700, and included ALL Microsoft software products, and that was when they actually pressed CDs to deliver and update it.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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And cheap at half the price!
Well, no - it'd be cheap at 1/20th the price...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Visual Studio 2012 Professional: $499
Visual Studio 2012 Professional with MSDN: $799
Visual Studio 2012 Premium with MSDN: $2,569
Visual Studio 2012 Ultimate with MSDN: $4,249
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You see that, in the distance? The small, bright, thing? That's the point, and you've missed it.
Not so very long ago you could pay MS $700 for an MSDN subscription and get actual physical disks with pretty much all the software MS produced. Now you have to pay $13.3K for less (for example on the old full subscription you'd get all the current Windows flavours, not just server).
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SharpDevelop: £0
But yeah that's not the point, really.
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I'm just curious: Why do you need to pay that by yourself?
Around here it is common that the Employer does offer the Computer & Software needed to get the job done.
I will never again mention that Dalek Dave was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel.
How to ask a question
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I didn't say I had to pay that - I said I was gathering a list of dev tools I needed for the job. That list will be given to the company to buy.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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That's not a fair comparison though. You get so much more for your MSDN money now. I believe it's called bankruptcy.
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You may not need Ultimate. A lot of people get that but don't really use Ultimate specific features.
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THAT.IS.NOT.THE.POINT.
The point is that you pay almost 20 times as much for less tangible product (and with no improvement in support, but that's a topic for another thread).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Well, for a corporate company, 13,000 an year for Visual Studio, SQL Server, Windows OSes (including server editions), Office, BizTalk, SharePoint etc. is not that bad a deal in my opinion. It's probably less than 15% of an average software developer's salary.
It is expensive if you are a small startup, but they've got special pricing for startups (forgot the name of the program you needed to sign up to).
Not trying to counter your point here, but just looking at it from a different perspective. 
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Nish Sivakumar wrote: It's probably less than 15% of an average software developer's salary.
Gizza Job.
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Very nice of you, Nish.
But there is no way to look at it that makes it anything approaching reasonable. Why not ask your mechanic to buy all new tools at 15% of his wages, then have him put them away every year or two and buy them again. Oh, and that old style warranty thing that let you get new tools if the old ones broke or just didn't work - forget that. Microsoft is not only biting the hands that feed it, but mauling and raping them, as well.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: Why not ask your mechanic to buy all new tools at 15% of his wages,
Well, it would be the company owner that pays that. I did not mean that a software dev should pay 15% of his income to buy his dev tools. I meant that a company should be fine with paying 15% of what it pays its average dev for the dev tools. For most successful companies that'd be fairly affordable. And these are individual prices, you can get bulk corporate pricing (often at half that amount I think).
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We'll need a lot fewer developers, then, since amortizing those costs will make our products less cost-effective and reduce our sales by a fair amount. 
The idea that, simply because the company is buying - or the government - makes it okay to gouge the buyer is wrong. Period.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I don't agree. People sell software for prices far higher than that. Also if your company is not doing business at that level of profit/revenue, you do not need Ultimate. You can get lower priced editions, you can buy individual licenses etc.
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It's a good thing you don't need to also license Xamarin[^] for enterprise development.
/ravi
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Hi,
Did they hire someone from Apple to do the pricing 
With friendly greetings,
Eric Goedhart
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Eric Goedhart wrote: Did they hire someone from Apple to do the pricing
Too bad they didn't... XCode is free! 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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The price of indentured servitude with no fixed date for manumission is ... inflationary.
"You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store"
"Sixteen Tons" by Merle Travis (1946); became number-one hit in the US with Tennessee Ernie Ford's 1955 recording.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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aaahhhhrrgghhh - you've infested my cerebellum with a parasitic mind-worm!
I thought it was 'I sold my soul to the company store' - but it's difficult to make out the words while listening to it on wax cylinders 
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I have something to say but it would get marked as abuse in a nano-second.
Perhaps a simple "Oy vey!" would suffice.
That is pretty crazy - I realize it costs them money to develop, market, etc., but that is nuts.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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It's the old "Does this hurt? What about now?" trick. Keep squeezing until the blood flow stops and then ever so slightly release the pressure.
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