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You might also get a factually correct answer from SAK.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
(√-sh*t) 2
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: You might also get a patronising, arrogant, but factually correct answer
FTFY!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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That was implied.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
(√-sh*t) 2
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Wasn't that the meaning of SAK? 
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Regrettably... 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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BruceN wrote: unlimited google access
Learning a new framework/language isn't nearly as daunting as it was 8+ years ago thanks to sites like CP. Happy hunting! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I see bits and pieces but I don't have a feel for this new OS yet.
Here are my questions:
1: Will the browser support Silverlight?
2: Will it be the same OS across desktop, tablet, phone?
3: Should I hold off on buying a tablet and phone until this is released?
4: Will VS2012 work on this OS?
Most of the news stories are about the 'Start' button or some other ridiculous concern.
The absence or inclusion of 'charms' don't mean no thang to me.
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1. Yes, it does
2. Don't know, but probably
3. No
4. Yes, I've been using it on Wen (W10).
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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MehGerbil wrote: Most of the news stories are about the 'Start' button or some other ridiculous concern.
I never could understand the concern about the start button. Once I got used to using the start page I never thought about the missing start button. Apparently, it was a big deal to people who are stuck in a rut.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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I don't see what the fuss is about the Start button either. Any menu for that matter - my PC isn't a deli where I want to browse around and slowly pick something nice looking to run. I know what I want to run, and just use Windows key and type the first few letters of the app name.
No object is so beautiful that, under certain conditions, it will not look ugly. - Oscar Wilde
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JimmyRopes wrote: Apparently, it was a big deal to people who are stuck in a rut have more than three programs installed on their computers, and who don't want to have to stop what they're doing and go to a start page to access a different program (on page nine of the start "page"), when a little clickable thing can be always available.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Apparently, it was a big deal to people who are stuck in a rut have more than three programs installed on their computers
I have many more than 3 applications installed on my computer and do not see the problem you are having.
Qute possibly you are in the wrong profession if you cannot adapt to a new interface. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Quite possibly you like your new toy, but also quite possibly a lot of other people don't like it.
Quite possibly, civilised people can discuss/have a laugh about such differences.
But with comments like your last one, most possibly you're a jerk.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: most possibly you're a jerk.
An adaptive jerk, thank you very much.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Understanding an interface is not necessarily the same as liking an interface.
I can use the interface on Windows 8 but I still find it retarded on a pc.
A tablet is another thing though.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
(√-sh*t) 2
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Try Windows 8.1 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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JimmyRopes wrote: I have many more than 3 applications installed o
You ever use a hammer? Are you amazed by the hammer itself or do you perhaps actually want to build something with the hammer?
And how useful would it be if your 'new' hammer, the one you normally use every day, started looking more like a 16 pound sledge? Or a hand saw with a place on it that allowed you to pound nails?
JimmyRopes wrote: if you cannot adapt to a new interface.
I have quite a few tools that I use. They are useful because I know how to use them to produce what I need. If I am spending time learning how to use the tool, rather than actually producing what I need then it costs money. Real money.
Maybe that real money doesn't matter to you when you need to learn a "new interface".
Or perhaps, unlike me, you don't actually deal with real interfaces (I have created perhaps more than 100 interfaces to external systems in the last 10 years) and because everyone 'thinks' that they have a 'better' way to do something it means that I must deal with a vast array of "new interfaces" all the time.
My experience would be that the people that think they have a 'better' way - do not. They have nothing more than a different way. But they do attempt to rationalize that it is better - sometimes going to extreme lengths to do so.
And that of course doesn't account for the fact that at least sometimes it is in fact worse. As the law of averages would dictate.
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If after 10 years in the business it takes you a long time to get oriented on a new system you need to examine if you are in the right endeavor. Perhaps accounting or sales may suit you better?
Having seen very large changes in the industry over the past 41 years I don't see what the big deal was about Windows 8.
It wasn't perfect and a few tweaks in Windows 8.1 have made it even more usable, but the basic functionality didn't change.
I was able, within a few days of needing a cheat sheet, to do everything using Windows 8 as I was using Windows 7. What a lot of people don't realize is that you can do anything you did under Windows 7, albeit the way you did it is a little different.
Some things like the administrative menu (right button in lower left corner of screen) were an improvement.
Having gone from coding sheets that you submitted to a key punch operator and all the iterations culminating in the modern UI I don't find it a problem when someone moves my cheese.
In fact I like learning new ways of doing things. That is why I chose this industry. It keeps my mind working in old age.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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JimmyRopes wrote: If after 10 years in the business it takes you a long time to get oriented on a new system you need to examine if you are in the right endeavor.
First that has nothing to do with what I said.
Second I have been doing in for more than 40.
Third I was emphasizing that in the last 10 years I have spent a lot of time interfacing with what other people think/claim are 'good' ways to do something so I have some experience in actually differentiating between those that are in fact good from those that are just average and those that are horrifically bad (even in some cases to be unusable from a business perspective.)
JimmyRopes wrote: I was able, within a few days of needing a cheat sheet, to do everything using Windows 8 as I was using Windows 7.
I once started and completed the certification process for a proprietary credit card interface in two weeks, actually slightly less than 10 working days. That of course drove revenue to the company. (That of course was one of the 100 external API that I needed to interface with.)
Spending a week or a even a couple days in a week learning a new version of windows doesn't drive revenue and because I am not in fact producing anything during that time period it is a loss.
JimmyRopes wrote: What a lot of people don't realize is that you can do anything you did under Windows 7, albeit the way you did it is a little different.
Which of course I knew. And it doesn't change anything I said. I have in fact drove nails with a wrench and removed nails with a pliers, but that doesn't alter the fact that I would still rather use a hammer for both.
JimmyRopes wrote: I don't find it a problem when someone moves my cheese.
Nor do I but I can also understand that other people would find it difficult and I also understand that claims of actual 'improvement' are very likely nothing but market hype. And if there is not in fact an improvement then the time spent learning by itself will drive the 'improvement' into the negative.
JimmyRopes wrote: In fact I like learning new ways of doing things
Myself I like delivering products that sell and even, hopefully, work. Some of that of course is because I like getting paid so I can pay my bills. And learning something that, at best, is just some new paint on the same old car doesn't do it. 32 bits from 16 bits that was a worthwhile trick. 64 bits from 32 was a good trick too. Moving buttons around and adding shading does absolutely nothing but look good in a demo when one has nothing better to show.
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Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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To be fair, I work with people who regularly save files on their computer and who minutes later are completely unable to find those files. This is after using PCs for more than 20 years.
A new OS would be more confusing than switching genders for these people.
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MehGerbil wrote: I work with people who regularly save files on their computer and who minutes later are completely unable to find those files.
Hopefully they are not developers.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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The "All Apps" display in Windows 8 was a poor substitute.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I never go to all apps unless I want to pin an app to the start page. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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