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Rather than continue to complain about each other, developers and security pros need to work together and celebrate their successes. Hug a security person today (and steal their wallet)
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Kent Sharkey wrote: Rather than continue to complain about each other, developers and security pros need to work together and celebrate their successes.
Well, according to numerous news articles, they've successfully failed numerous times.  Yay! success! <:limp_arm_motion:>
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Becoming a software developer is hard. And even worse, aspiring coders aren't necessarily being taught the skills that employers value and expect, says one CTO. Developers should be taught how to find, copy, and paste code from the internet?
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The article contains a lot of filler and is simplistic. For example, it laments that online training doesn't give would-be developers enough hands-on experience. Duh. It's hard to do that in a school of any type. It's what you learn on the job and can never get enough of.
And then there's this gem:
Quote: "I don't want an engineer writing in C or C++, and the reason is it's too dangerous of a language," he explains.
"There are so many potential errors they can create that modern languages like C#, TypeScript, Java, Python can prevent…We don't want them writing in those languages at all."
Evidently this buffoon thinks all programming is for web services. What a sheltered existence he leads for someone opining on how software professionals should be trained.
modified 24-May-21 7:47am.
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When I was getting my CS degree (way back fall 1989 to spring 1991) the first few courses were coding but as I got further along in the degree, I wasn't coding at all. The best professor I had taught us to think logically through the use of mathematical proofs. I also had other classes about the business/requirements gathering side of the job.
I do wish they had taught debugging skills, those I learned from more senior developers in my first job.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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MarkTJohnson wrote: I do wish they had taught debugging skills
This is the one thing nobody teaches. I took programming twice, once in high school (I went to a technical high school) and once at the college, but I learnt debugging on my own as a self-taught programmer.
I had to learn the ins and outs of debuggers on the job - at first I managed to debug image recognition algorithms with printfs. Not the easiest or smartest thing to do.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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MarkTJohnson wrote: I do wish they had taught debugging skills,
Amen.
The problem is that in University you are taught "Computer Science", not "Program Development". This is the equivalent of teaching auto mechanics about thermodynamics, the Otto cycle, and the chemistry of combustion, but not how to repair a car.
I am not disparaging Computer Science. Much of the subject is useful even for the average working programmer, but a few additional hours showing how to troubleshoot code would not come amiss.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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That probably means you taught yourself how to write actual working and useful code though.
I did too.
An intern once told me he taught himself everything he knew about programming because they didn't teach it at school.
He did a practical application development study (so it was designed to deliver actual coders rather than scientists).
We had a fourth-year intern from the same school and the same study who couldn't even declare a variable.
I don't think programming is particularly hard (although it comes naturally to me and everything you know is easy).
It's a skill you can learn, but learning it is the hardest part.
And unfortunately, there aren't many good learning resources out there.
That being said, most people need everything handed to them because they won't play with it themselves and won't go out of their way to go beyond what is taught.
We may have great doctor schools (maybe, I don't actually know), but some are definitely more skilled than all the others.
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Despite massive growth in no-code, only 18% of people are familiar with “no-code,” according to the Rise of the No-Code Economy report produced by Formstack, a no-code workplace productivity platform. :blink: :blink: It's right there in the name...
Of course, maybe I'm just in the 82%?
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It certainly doesn't mean what it says: no code
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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That’s the intent though. It’s just that “as little as possible”-code didn’t do well on the focus groups for the naming. 
TTFN - Kent
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They should have gone with 'idiot-code'!
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I wonder if people who choose no-code platforms for mentioned reasons are also the people who build the software.
If so, I'd like to know what they think a year from now.
I've worked with a no-code platform and no-code != no-knowledge.
It wasn't particularly easy for me as a professional coder, but I've worked with someone who's done WinForms and SQL Server for twenty years and he just didn't grasp basic web concepts, despite it being no-code.
This platform recommended all their customers make use of their partner business which actually built the software for their clients.
So these customers choose a no-code platform and then outsourced the building of software in that platform, simply because customers didn't understand the platform well enough to build professional software quickly.
I think what these people are forgetting, or never knew, is that writing code is only a small percentage of making software.
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Sander Rossel wrote: writing code is only a small percentage of making software.
Yeah. They skipped the grant-writing process, to make certain the the project behind the code was absolutely meaningless to modern society. That has to be the single-most time-consuming part of most projects.  
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In 2018, Cornell researchers built a high-powered detector that, in combination with an algorithm-driven process called ptychography, set a world record by tripling the resolution of a state-of-the-art electron microscope. Because I know many of you are into ptychography
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Short wave interference?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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We know the internet is important to commerce, and now, here is an estimate of its value per hour. Not to mention the emotional damage from loss of cat videos
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No email and no other distractions.
I could finally get some work done!
Until I hit my first bug and desperately need Google and SO 
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Hmm. I think the financial damage would be the least of our worries. A vast amount of first-world civilization depends upon a functioning Internet. Those communications are used for resource management. I suspect a sudden failure of those communications would trigger a massive cascade of failures in the majority of systems that maintain and operate our society. We might last for an outage of hours or even days, but I think too much longer than that and we would see significant casualties.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Kent Sharkey wrote: loss of cat videos
I, for one, love cat videos.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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We'd go from AD (== Automated Disturbances) back to BC (== Before Cellphones)?
Finally, some peace and quiet!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Oh God No! Just think of all the cats that could no longer be Photoshopped!
< / sarcasm_re_cloud_subscriptions >
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