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(Seriously, if it is ever possible here)
In what way is Apple "crap" ? (other than anecdotical evidence )
The company releases good products that pleases people, I've not heard massive recalls or huge failures in recent history.
It is true that there were and will be crap Apple products (the towers, the cube, some weird mouse, the newton, some map weirdness... ) but the company continued and worked around those.
The hardware is good and works as expected, the software works as expected (including the inevitable bugs and quirks).
People buy the products, not just the "elite" as someone wrote below, but "moms" and "pops" because it works.
If the product was really crap, then reviews would not be good and the product would not sell.
I'd rather be phishing!
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I didn't say the products (although for every apple product, there are fifty products both cheaper and better -- who in their right mind wants a device with the musical rendition of an ipod, for example?), I said the brand image.
Any image-branding that relies on users of mass-available products feeling that they are somehow part of an elite is so short-termist that it will hit rock bottom with a bang (in apple's case, more than once).
It's stupid and its cr@p because it cannot last.
But that's OK, because the guys at the top and in the marketing departments will still be raking in the dosh; it's only developers who'll get canned.
Now that Mr Popularity has gone, there is no-one who can provide the verbal and visual paper to cover over the cracks, so it's extremely likely that they'll run into yet another ditch, quite soon.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: It's stupid and its cr@p because it cannot last.
Meaning what exactly?
For example the analog cell phone that I had about 10 years worked fine, but I believe would be entirely useless now because, at best, only the 911 (emergency) service works on it. So it wouldn't matter if it was built to last 100 years.
But perhaps you mean the culture won't last? So? As with the point above some people buy phones every year so it doesn't matter if the fad next year is some other phone. (And since it is their money they should be allowed to spend it buying a phone every year if they want.)
Mark_Wallace wrote: it's only developers who'll get canned.
Presumably you do in fact work right? It is fact of life that ALL companies will get rid of employees if they can't sell anything. Doesn't matter if the company is 1 year old or 500. If they don't sell then the employees will be gone.
Mark_Wallace wrote: Now that Mr Popularity has gone, there is no-one who can provide the verbal and
visual paper to cover over the cracks, so it's extremely likely that they'll run
into yet another ditch, quite soon.
Which is certainly an emotional appeal and not a logical one. Which suggests that the other rationalizations originate from that rather than an actual analysis of market dynamics.
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Mark_Wallace wrote: although for every apple product, there are fifty products both cheaper and better
Right.... 
Somewhere along the line you've gotten your panties in a twist about Apple and just can't seem to think clearly.
I grew tired of dealing with Microsoft OS crap and PC hardware issues years ago. After a brief stint with Linux, I switched to Apple and have been very happy. Did it cost a bit more (approx 10%) than similar spec'd WinTel stuff... yes, but its been over 4 years and my iMac still runs perfectly with no end in sight. In my WinTel days, I would have needed to re-install the OS a few times and likely replace several components over that timeframe. I value my time more now than before, so I want a computer that values my time as well. That 10% has been paid for many times over in my opinion.
In my experience Apple users (as a rule) are not elitist, they're just happy with the tools they've chosen while non-Apple users are usually still fighting the tools. If you see that as elitist I suggest the problem is yours.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Not that remarkable, considering the the States of Unitedness tend to always
give most value to the most useless.
So no different than the rest of the world then.
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Pretty much, but don't tell 'em I said so.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I think despite of all the negative news which Apple received in the media, its brand is still a very powerful one. I think the Apple brand is so powerfull because Apple says, all its products are exclusive, so if you own an Apple product your in the elite, who can afford to be exclusive.
We have to admit, their products are really good if you look at the whole (hardware + design + software).
What do you think, why Apple's brand is so powerful?
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The one thing I always said:
Q: What does Apple sell?
A: a Lifestyle!
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Gergo Bogdan wrote: We have to admit, their products are really good if you look at the whole
They've got a good Marketing department.
"Hardware + design + software"?
Don't make me laugh 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Is there a different default action upon hearing Apple related news?
"Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation, so that belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin
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There appears to be a more of a Marmite appeal to Apple products here, you either love them or hate them.
I haven't really read from anyone here that sits on the fence regarding Apple.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
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Simon_Whale wrote: I haven't really read from anyone here that sits on the fence regarding Apple.
That is because we couldn't give a rats, these type of threads are for those who care!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Where is this fence you speak about? 
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It's in Christian Graus's backyard 
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
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Simon_Whale wrote: It's in Christian Graus's backyard
Don't you mean on his desktop? 
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Simon_Whale wrote: I haven't really read from anyone here that sits on the fence regarding Apple.
Believe it or not, I am on that fence.
Their hardware is fine (if a bit prissy in presentation and overpriced for its specs), but even the Windows baby-blocks OS is better for phones and tablets, which is probably why iOS7 is moving in that direction.
On pricing, I'm currently awaiting delivery of a second android tab which has better specs (except for the camera and a couple of other things that aren't important to me), and literally costs less than a quarter of the price of my itoy.
It's the branding BS, the prices, and the gotta-do-everything-through-itunes that I take exception to.
If they start to treat their customers with respect, rather than as mindless followers of fashion who can't be trusted with a file system, I might well invest more in their products.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: It's the branding BS, the prices
I read once that an Iphone 5S 64Gb editions costs Apple $219 to make and they sell it for $850
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
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You can't take everything you read on-line as Gospel, but some things are much easier to believe than others.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: rather than as mindless followers of fashion who can't be trusted with a file
system
Except of course that most consumer users are not IT experts. And they are selling to consumers not IT experts. It would be rather stupid of them to ignore that fact and not make a product that is suited to their actual users.
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OK, I'd to upvote that one.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: "Hardware + design + software"?
Don't make me laugh 
The liking of something is a personal thing, either you like it, either not.
With that line, I wanted to emphesize, that (IMHO) there is no other company which has a so unified (hardware + software) "environment" for users and Apple knows this. I'm curious why did you write don't make me laugh?
Before you say anything I don't work for Apple 
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Gergo Bogdan wrote: if you own an Apple product your in the elite
Yes if you buy an iPhone you are so special that there are only 9 million others like you this weekend.
Peter Wasser
Art is making something out of nothing and selling it.
Frank Zappa
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No, 9 millions sold phones does not equal 9 million users. Some phones will still be somewhere in the store, in storage, or still be in gift-wrappings.
..and I'll bet that someone will have tried whether it blends
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: No, 9 millions sold phones does not equal 9 million users. Some phones will
still be somewhere in the store, in storage, or still be in gift-wrappings.
Not really. Most are actually sold to consumers. That is why the pipeline is running out. Some might not be in actual use but it certainly won't be 1 million, so as an approximation "9 million" is good enough.
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