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V. wrote: why everyone is against "homework" questions though. I don't really care as long as that person proves he put in some work already
I've never answered Q&A here but did on other forums for far too long so I know that the number of people who have genuinely tried to create a solution and failed is minimal at best. My main reason for not helping with homework however is that ultimately it does not aid the learner in the long run. The teacher will be presented with a complete solution with no explanation of how it was come by and therefore no knowledge of the student's weaknesses or misunderstanding. The student will tick this off as another task completed and is very unlikely to care whether any real understanding of the points at issue has been gained. It is therefore right to see getting homework answers as cheating but it is ultimately students cheating themselves.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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But all of those points could just as easily apply to non-homework "no effort" questions. If someone is being paid to write code but doesn't know how to solve a basic problem, writing their code for them will not aid them in the long run. If they take your code and present it to their project manager as their own work, the PM has no knowledge of their weaknesses. The PM will keep assigning tasks, and the employee will keep expecting other people to do the work for them.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Homework is supposed to be just that - and assuming the instructor isn't trying to be an ass, the learning is in the struggle.
So - when I see a question that says "do my homework for me" I usually bypass it - it's usually addressed already, anyway. On the other hand, if they seem to be work and have just gotten stuck on something then I prefer to give the a nudge or even a push in the right direction so that they can get the answer but still learn it.
There are certainly nuances to this. And, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, there are some that seem to scream out "Do My Work For Me So I Get Paid For Your Efforts". Definitely a bypass.
Q&A - if it's really done right - is a forum for teaching and not just answering. That's the good stuff - especially when they recognize what you've done is lasting.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I quite agree. I don't answer Q&A's much myself either, partly because of the fact that you can provide an answer that is 100% correct, but if the OP can't see that or get it to work, then your answer is marked as wrong. And I don't like newcomers telling me that I'm wrong, when I know that I'm not... 
But also, there is as you mention a general negative and rude attitude in Q&A. To be honest, I don't think the example you posted was as very good example. It was much nicer than normal, even for Volde... He who must not be named! 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 13-May-16 7:56am.
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I'm with you on this one. I had a run in with He who must not be named the other day Could someone help me simplify some lines[^] when he said part of my solution was "potentially incorrect" but didn't have the good grace to tell me which bit until a fair bit of to-and-fro commenting (which of cause garners rep points).
I did chuckle though - I'd made a mistake in the wording (not the code, it wasn't mine) and was criticised by the master of incomprehensible commenting 
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Totally agree Bill,
New version: WinHeist Version 2.2.2 Beta I told my psychiatrist that I was hearing voices in my head. He said you don't have a psychiatrist!
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As soon as I clicked the link and started reading I thought I was at StackOverflow, it was after I reread that I realised it was here. 
Yes I agree that we can do better, not that I really help out at QA but that's mostly because I'm on the demand and not supply side of things.
I dislike visiting SO because I feel like I don't get anything out from it. Here I've gotten help and comments which have helped rephrase my problem so it can be better understood and help myself to better understand what it's I'm asking about.
Even if someone asks about homework you shouldn't be an *** about it but either ignore, point out that we shouldn't do someone's homework or help them help themself.
a thriving helpful QA is important in so many ways, it can help you avoid reinventing the wheel and become better. Find help to a tricky problem as well as give new inputs and I have a long-term goal of being able to become good enough to give back because that's a sign that I've progressed.
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Member 11683251 wrote: Here I've gotten help and comments which have helped rephrase my problem so it can be better understood and help myself to better understand what it's I'm asking about.
I think you've hit the head on the nail here. Mostly, people have a problem they don't know what to do about, hence they don't know what they should ask about.
Hence, the smartasses will say that they are stupid - instead of helping them understand the problem. It's a vicious circle, because if you don't get help in understanding where the problems lie, you won't know how to ask a better question either.
Homeworkers, however, ought to know more about what they're asking about, because hopefully, they will have had SOME education on the subject in class. So homework questions are ALWAYS stupid. If you had listened to your teacher instead of Facebooking, you'd know what the answer was... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 13-May-16 9:13am.
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That's why I don't post questions. Each and every time instead of an answer there are people criticizing what you did or telling that what you're trying to achieve is wrong - even when given the circumstances is actually reasonable, at least more than rewriting the entire code base of the company.
I don't answer often because many questions are simply requests for solutions - I have no time to spare on that, if I want to code I'd be doing it instead of procastrinating on CP - or are outside my sphere of competence. Also by the time one finish writing the answer often the question ends up deleted.
And yes, I too noticed the terrible sociopatic attitude of some members.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
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den2k88 wrote: Each and every time instead of an answer there are people criticizing what you did or telling that what you're trying to achieve is wrong - even when given the circumstances is actually reasonable, at least more than rewriting the entire code base of the company.
That really irritates me. If they can't help you with the problem as the situation is, they should just let somebody else answer. As you say, you may very well HAVE to do stuff a certain way because of how the system is build before you got at it. Refactoring is not always a good idea because is can waste company and/or client money and/or time.
I have asked specific questions on occasion, and people will come up with a lot of complicated ways of solving them that are not realistic. But when I point out that that is not what I ask for, I'll almost certainly be abused... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-
I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 13-May-16 10:11am.
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Yes, I can definitely relate to that one.
For many of us, the stuff we struggle with most is garbage that we've inherited from our predecessors. We know full well that the "big picture" answer is something along the lines of "use pattern X", "use pattern Y" or "normalise your goddamn database" but we're not about to get the go-ahead to rewrite something that's due to die in a couple of years and we really, really don't need to be reminded about how unspeakably awful the code is.
I hate having to precede questions with an explanation that borders on an apology - "I'm working on some legacy code that was written by someone who couldn't code his way out of a wet paper bag and I'd really love to be able to fix one little thing without rewriting 2 million lines of very bad code etc., etc." Even having done that, there will still be some numpty who skips straight to the code sample and blurts out "Why aren't you using MVVM, idiot?"
Whilst CP is nowhere near as bad as SO for that sort of self-righteous prickery, I do think that it's becoming more prevalent as time goes by.
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This might be a tricky path to follow but maybe...
To have some moderators who (just like in some chat forums) are able to ban abusers for some time. I do not hang around in the Q&A but I would think and hope that the bad apples are not in majority.
"Be banned for a week or two to ponder your sins."
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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I'm sure that "somebody" would get pissed off and think that Griff was only banning him because he felt his rep points were threatened... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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So what? "Somebody" may think whatever he wants. 
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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I do not think anything here could "threaten" Griff in any way: he is, after all, "original" 
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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Yeah, but right now he's got the highest rep point! Who knows how he might react if he were poked down to second place? He might throw a fit and start using all the fowlest Welsh expressions he knows? 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-
I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 13-May-16 9:23am.
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BillWoodruff wrote: Is it absurd, or totally unrealistic
No, and I speak as one who has been guilty of such misdemeanours as you describe. However, there are times when the carelessness, lack of realistic expectations and sheer stupidity of some questions pricks that part of my brain that tends to blow a fuse.
The foregoing is a reason, not an excuse (for which there is none).
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: I speak as one who has been guilty of such misdemeanours as you describe
That could be why Bill didn't include you in the respected members list... Jussaying!
[EDIT] You may have noticed that I weren't there either... [/EDIT]
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-
I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 13-May-16 9:06am.
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Come on, Johnny J., take some Windex to that crystal ball.
I did not mention such valued and respected frequent contributors to QA like Richard MacCutchan, Richard Deeming, Sasha LeFavre, Maciej Los, Afzaal Zeeshan, CHill60, Dave K., OriginalGriff, and many others ...
Because they do participate in QA. I spoke only of persons who have stopped participating in QA because of (imho) their negative experience there, and commented publicly on that.
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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I was joking. Made sure to put the icon up there...
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
-
The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-
I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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I'm honoured to have been included in that list, but will also confess to having been guilty of a ... shall we say, less than tolerant attitude in QA from time to time.
I did actually stay away from QA ... and in fact this entire site, for sometime because of the behaviours you mention. However I grew a thicker skin, realised my own worth and came back. I've only really been fully active for the last 3 or 4 years.
I will say here and now though - if anyone catches me out being rude or insulting, please call me out on it - nicely though  .
I can only improve through knowledge and awareness.
However a certain member is completely lacking in self-awareness
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The problem won't be resolved until all the old programmers are retired or dead.
Us old guys are part of the pre-internet era, where you had to muscle through coding problems alone because your network of truly knowledgeable peers was quite small. Along came the internet, and we were glad that we didn't have to read endless unrelated texts to get to the solution of our problem. Google made it even simpler for us.
Overall, we developed a certain work ethic regarding coding. By habit, we look for the solution BEFORE asking for help. It's a completely different mind set nowadays, and I'm willing to bet that instructors are even suggesting getting help off the internet.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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I do agree that there may be a "generational experience" aspect to this that helps explain the negative behavior of some members.
The key thing, I suggest, is not to let those few who are socially destructive, set the "tone" for the process, and/or, drive other people away.
And, I distinguish between being "blunt" and "forceful" in comments and interactions with newcomers, from being insulting.
I have seen you give very solid technical answers in a very "blunt" way without insulting anyone, and I enjoy that aspect of your on-line persona.
cheers, Bill
«There is a spectrum, from "clearly desirable behaviour," to "possibly dodgy behavior that still makes some sense," to "clearly undesirable behavior." We try to make the latter into warnings or, better, errors. But stuff that is in the middle category you don’t want to restrict unless there is a clear way to work around it.» Eric Lippert, May 14, 2008
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BillWoodruff wrote: I enjoy that aspect of your on-line persona.
That's not just my online persona (and that's why I walk around armed to the teeth).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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This exact same person shat all over me in my newbie experiences. I posted this [^] question asking where to start with web development. At the time I was a seasoned Win32 and .Net developer. That was all. I have since added Android, a lot of SQL, and yes, lots of web to my resume. But at the time I didn't know where to start and how to make heads or tails of anything.
I realize in hind site how stupid my question was. Really what I wanted was for someone to explain what items like CSS, JavaScript, HTML, ASP, PHP, jQuery, etc all meant. I didn't know what I should learn because I didn't know how they tied together or where to even begin.
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