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Mark Miller30-May-23 4:12

Mark Miller

30-May-23 4:12

We've had several Surface devices in our family - used for college and homework.
Family loved them.
My 1st generation Surface Book is still going strong - was a Christmas present in 2016 (mine is the updated one with Nvidia GPU built into the keyboard).

Sincerely,

-Mark
mamiller@mhemail.org

StarNamer@work25-May-23 3:36

StarNamer@work

25-May-23 3:36

I looked up the specs on the CPU & GPU:

Intel Core i9 13900HX - Max Turbo Power: 157W
RTX 4090 Laptop GPU - Board Power: (up to) 150W

That's a lot of heat to dissipate! OMG | :OMG:

honey the codewitch25-May-23 3:47

25-May-23 3:47

Indeed. These modern laptops however, have great cooling setups. I think the thermal pads on this could be improved though, as is often the case.

I've been thinking due to their better power per watt performance, and generally lower power consumption, an AMD may have been a better choice for a laptop CPU, but I'm still happy with this, and my primary heat issues are from the GPU, not the CPU, which seems to bench fantastically in performance mode.

The GPU is running hot, I can tell, because it's benching lower than other 4090 mobile GPUs - lower than average for that model.

There's smoke in my iris
But I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids
So I'm ready now (What you ready for?)
I'm ready for life in this city
And my wings have grown almost enough to lift me

dandy7225-May-23 3:48

dandy72

25-May-23 3:48

As far as I'm aware of, the whole RTX 4xxx line has (had?) thermal issues--or at least it did upon initial release...even in desktops with plenty of room for air to flow.

I can't say I'm terribly surprised hearing about this with such a beast sitting in a laptop.

honey the codewitch25-May-23 4:07

25-May-23 4:07

The 4090m uses far less watts than the desktop 4090 despite having the same basic architecture.

It benches right between a 3090 and 3090 TI desktop at about half the wattage.

And yeah, these cards can have thermal issues. My 4080 desktop has been cool as a cucumber - most I've ever hit it was at 67C when I forgot to turn my chassis fans up. Much cooler than my 2080TI.

The issue I've heard with the 4080/4090s is their RAM runs hot, and could use some thermal pads, plus some bad pads/adhesion from the factory on the core components.

I'm hoping to just shore up the GPU in this chassis with some additional thermal management.

There's smoke in my iris
But I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids
So I'm ready now (What you ready for?)
I'm ready for life in this city
And my wings have grown almost enough to lift me

RickZeeland25-May-23 6:23

RickZeeland

25-May-23 6:23

I would recommend taking a look at the Windows advanced power settings for Processor power management.
I throttled mine to avoid the fans blazing when playing games $Shucks | :-\$

honey the codewitch25-May-23 6:26

25-May-23 6:26

Windows power settings can't deal with the extra power options for my GPU(s).

I have onboard and discrete both. My lappy switches between them to save power. Unfortunately, this means some programs wind up using the wrong one. Like I had a benchmark program that insisted on doing its 3d benchmarking on my onboard graphics. You can change from automatic to discrete in BIOS or through a utility that ships with the laptop.

My CPU is actually relatively cool, and under normal workloads my laptop isn't that noisy.

Gaming of course, is one area where the fans really kick on. And that's where the discrete GPU is necessary.

Unfortunately, my discrete GPU seems to be thermally throttling itself more than it should have to, meaning the cooling situation probably isn't altogether ideal.

There's smoke in my iris
But I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids
So I'm ready now (What you ready for?)
I'm ready for life in this city
And my wings have grown almost enough to lift me

jschell25-May-23 7:00

jschell

25-May-23 7:00

honey the codewitch wrote:
We're down to 5nm lithography and PC thermal situation has only gotten worse despite that.

Physics always stops the fun.

If it wasn't for physics we could start building the Starship Enterprise now.

jmaida25-May-23 15:12

jmaida

25-May-23 15:12

In football, "It's the knees. It's always the knees" Bill Parcells, NFL coach. Source CHATGPT
In computer science, "It's the heat. It's always the heat." anon

"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger

GKP199225-May-23 18:14

GKP1992

25-May-23 18:14

honey the codewitch wrote:
My plan is to rip it apart, and upgrade all the thermal solutions inside with the best money can buy, and maybe add more on the GPU and NVMes

Applying expensive thermal paste may not be the best way to go. Chances are that the thermal paste currently applied is good enough and changing it may make minor differences but nothing significant.
Most heat dissipation issues are usually caused by the lack of airflow. Maybe the fans aren't running at full throttle, or the fan blades are not big enough which common in laptops. Or maybe the laptop's design hinders the airflow.
If it were up to me, I'd rely on experts to do the job. Sadly there aren't many.
Could also consider returning if the issues can't be fixed permanently.

modified 26-May-23 1:41am.

honey the codewitch25-May-23 23:15

25-May-23 23:15

Not paste. Pads and copper sheets.

If they didn't work, then they wouldn't put them on NVMes to keep them from melting.

If it didn't work they wouldn't put them on the laptop internals in the first place.

It it didn't work, I'd have no shoddy workmanship in the laptop to go redo in the first place.

There's smoke in my iris
But I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids
So I'm ready now (What you ready for?)
I'm ready for life in this city
And my wings have grown almost enough to lift me

Peter Miller from Unknown

Peter Miller from Unknown29-May-23 0:33

29-May-23 0:33

the result is usually called a desktop

BillWoodruff25-May-23 22:53

25-May-23 22:53

honey the codewitch wrote:
I just got a Lenovo Legion 7i with an i9-13900HX and an RTX 4090m

well, with so many posts informing us of that, my envy is less green Smile | :)

honey the codewitch wrote:
craps out even on older games like Fallout 4 due to thermal limiting.

what did you expect with such power usage in a small space ? surely Lenovo, or reviews on the web, warned about this ?

honey the codewitch wrote:
My plan is to rip it apart, and upgrade ... maybe add more on the GPU and NVMes. ...
Now I'm not sure if I want to gut this expensive new machine myself or make Geeksquad do it.

if you got the money, and the patience, and the time, great OMG | :OMG:

imho, you have created a Golem [^] that is already taking on a "life" of its own Smile | :)

«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch

honey the codewitch25-May-23 23:12

25-May-23 23:12

BillWoodruff wrote:
what did you expect with such power usage in a small space ?

I expect my machine to behave like a new Lenovo Legion 7i 16" 4090. It does not. It lacks the thermal characteristics of one of those machines, despite my machine supposedly also being one.

Ergo, it's probably getting returned for repair.

BillWoodruff wrote:
surely Lenovo, or reviews on the web, warned about this ?

Also, no their reviews don't warn that you might get a lemon.

There's smoke in my iris
But I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids
So I'm ready now (What you ready for?)
I'm ready for life in this city
And my wings have grown almost enough to lift me

BillWoodruff25-May-23 23:38

25-May-23 23:38

Hi, i did not mean to imply you had not done "due diligence" before the purchase.

Many years ago, i got burned several times because my compulsion/lust to have the latest ooh-shiny hardware led to my being an early adopter/customer ... and then ... when the warts and all were revealed ... lots of lost time.

Now, i am a cautious miser who will wait until a product has been on the market as long as it takes to see actual purchasers' reviews/ratings ... to spot potential lemons, or customer support problems..

cheers, bill

p.s. i still "get off" reading the hyped-up announcements of new wonders by the ooh-shiny- addicted flacks at popular review websites.

«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch

honey the codewitch26-May-23 3:51

26-May-23 3:51

I'm usually that way as well, but to the point of strong preference rather than vow, in terms of using stuff that's been battletested.

This purchase didn't leave me a lot of options given what I wanted. I needed a machine that could do two things:

1. Sit on my desk and be my linux slave, running a bunch of grotty command line linux tools whose documentation is in chinese

2. Easily travel with me to my sister's house, wherein I can use it to game with her while I'm there - a longstanding request I will not deny my baby* sister, whom I adore.

* I have two younger sisters - this one is 14 years my junior and will consequently grow old and die with the moniker "baby sister" if I have any say in the matter. Laugh | :laugh:

There's smoke in my iris
But I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids
So I'm ready now (What you ready for?)
I'm ready for life in this city
And my wings have grown almost enough to lift me

Member 1306162628-May-23 23:18

Member 13061626

28-May-23 23:18

Send it back now before it's too late.

New laptops often fail.

Just buy a tower and build it yourself.

honey the codewitch29-May-23 1:14

how to experiment with Chat-GPT# ?

29-May-23 1:14

No. And I fixed it.

I already built a machine, and I don't like towers because hot mobos should not be mounted vertically.

There's smoke in my iris
But I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids
So I'm ready now (What you ready for?)
I'm ready for life in this city
And my wings have grown almost enough to lift me

BillWoodruff25-May-23 1:45

25-May-23 1:45

Hi, I try to register for a free account (in Win 10/Chrome) with Open-AI, and get turned down because it sees my Thailand mobile-phone (Android) number as "VOIP." Forget trying to get tech support for Open-AI.

I've played with Bard, in Bing, and find it. as is, useless.

Appreciate any hints/clues for how to try the supposed code gen and other functions in Chat-whatever.

thanks, Bill

«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch

Richard MacCutchan25-May-23 2:22

Richard MacCutchan

25-May-23 2:22

BillWoodruff wrote:
Forget trying to get tech support for Open-AI.

You could always post your query to ChatGPT. Poke tongue | ;-P

BillWoodruff25-May-23 5:54

25-May-23 5:54

Thanks, as stated, I was using a Windows 10 laptop to try and register. The site demanded a phone number. The Android phone is a bog standard unlocked phone with a SIM from one of the largest telecoms in Thailand/Asia.

I thought I was trying to register as a Chat-GPT user via Open-AI:

"ChatGPT is an artificial intelligence (AI) chatbot developed by OpenAI"

cheers, Bill

«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch

BillWoodruff25-May-23 22:37

25-May-23 22:37

Richard MacCutchan wrote:
You could always post your query to ChatGPT.

Perhaps, Sir Richard, you jest ? Smile | :)

If I could use (post to ?) ChatGPT, I would not be struggling with how to see some kind of Chat thing do any of the things I read about ... like write some code, interact with me around some topic.

Bard, in Bing, is ... well, i'd call it a rather lame, so far, prototype.

as always your admirer Smile | :)

, bill

«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch