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I think, therefore I am, I think.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Steve Raw wrote: I think maybe I am, therefore what am I?
Uncertain.
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It's pretty simple: where there is money involved, don't take your eye off the ball. Outside of that, we all get along. Animals don't use money and live in the moment.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Gerry Schmitz wrote: where there is money involved, don't take your eye off the ball.
Agreed. Money serves as a resource that facilitates survival. The more money you have in your possession, the better your chances of survival will be. Money also serves as a social status indicator to others. Social status increases as wealth increases. A higher social status translates to higher chances of procreation. It all points back to survival and procreation. It's hardwired into our brains.
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You're an intelligent man, Steve. And, your rationale for being curious about the roots of human and/or animalistic nature is spot on. Just a caveat, when discussing topics such as this with the average person, not only will you lose most that have no concept of conscious vs subconscious behavior, but quite often it can lead to strong disagreements we'll call them.
Fifteen or twenty or so years ago, when I first started getting into this, and I wanted to talk about it on CP because these were my programming peers, I was met with such disdain. Given the average caliber of conversations still taking place by the majority, I doubt anything has changed.
Remember, when Freud first started talking about his theories, he was ridiculed. Such is the nature of humanity. So, the further up the totem pole you go, the less and less you'll have in common with folks when it comes to chats of such nature. After all, why bother when we have Nintendo? (sarcasm)
The world only pays kind to intelligence that they understand, which has its limits. You pass that threshold, it's a different story.
Personally, I believe there's superconscious behavior too. But, perhaps a different story for a different day.
Jeremy Falcon
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<chuckle> I'm one of those on the other side of the knowledge gap, and comfortably so. I find the preponderance of "mental health" issues in todays society dismaying and lay is at the feet of those who are interested in promoting the concepts. Attempting to understand the workings of what drive the human mind is well beyond my capabilities or interest.
Still good luck to those of you who are interested in such subjects.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: I find the preponderance of "mental health" issues in todays society dismaying and lay is at the feet of those who are interested in promoting the concepts.
For sure, most media is more about shock factor than understanding anything. And most people aren't super intelligent, so the mainstream version of mental health issues is just wrong. People don't need to understand; they have labels to parrot. (sarcasm)
Mycroft Holmes wrote: Attempting to understand the workings of what drive the human mind is well beyond my capabilities or interest.
Ironically so, the vast majority of those who are motivated to bother with it (say a psychologist) always grow up in an environment with mental health issues either from themselves, family, etc. As Tony Robbins says, people are motivated in only one of two ways... running towards something they want (why do they want it?) or running away from something they don't want.
As a bonus, it inherently comes with it a guaranteed level of ostracization (Henry David Thoreau, Socrates, etc.), so there's that.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: You're an intelligent man, Steve.
Thanks for the compliment, Jeremy. To quote Forrest Gump, "Stupid is, as stupid does". If we measure by that metric, I am most definitely stupid.  That's not something I can argue. I often remind myself that I can't take credit for whatever level of intelligence I may have been born with. IMO, I think perhaps I've been fortunate to have been dealt a relatively good hand of cards. In other areas, the cards I have been dealt are less than ideal. Whatever you're cards you may be dealt with, do the best with what you have. It's something that applies to everyone.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: strong disagreements
I can relate to that. It seems as though everyone feels strongly about what they believe regarding subject matter related to the field of psychology. It has always been loaded with controversy. It has been weaponized by political leaders to destroy the credibility of people who have the potential to compromise their place in power. The barbaric and dehumanizing "treatments" inflicted upon those with mental illness are disturbing. People have the inclination to discount your humanity if you suffer from mental illness. It has improved somewhat over time, but we're still in the dark ages. The stories I hear from patients in 2023 about their experiences aren't encouraging. There's a lot of abuse out there, and sadly much of it is inflicted upon patients by mental health professionals tasked with treating their mentally ill patients.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: After all, why bother when we have Nintendo? (sarcasm)
God gave us Nintendo because he loves us and wants us to be happy. A Nintendo NES is still something that can hold my attention just the same as it used to.
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Steve Raw wrote: Thanks for the compliment, Jeremy. To quote Forrest Gump, "Stupid is, as stupid does". If we measure by that metric, I am most definitely stupid.
Like I always say, you can understand humans, but you're still human. It doesn't make you above the same issues. It just means you get to argue with people about the why. I suppose the next "level" would be wisdom to use that information better... in theory.
Steve Raw wrote: IMO, I think perhaps I've been fortunate to have been dealt a relatively good hand of cards. In other areas, the cards I have been dealt are less than ideal.
It's like that with everyone. I can say the same. God has a funny way of balancing things out. Side note, there are different types of intelligence. Some times philosophers do nothing but think, when it's time for action... for instance.
Steve Raw wrote: People have the inclination to discount your humanity if you suffer from mental illness.
IMO "mental illness" is a term used by people that understand very little of the mind. At the very least, it shouldn't be a demonized term where we assume there's a problem with the person that cannot be cured. The difference between that and going to a doctor though, the person has to want it first. It's an inside job. Everything is "fixable"... if the person wants it. Nobody can do it for them. Not to mention, it's subjective. So, we treat it like it's demonized.
Sometimes you gotta do things for yourself.
Steve Raw wrote: God gave us Nintendo because he loves us and wants us to be happy. A Nintendo NES is still something that can hold my attention just the same as it used to.
I have a Nintendo too. What I mean is that is shouldn't be an excuse to avoid learning or reality though. It's an escape, but don't escape so much you're blind to the world is all.
Jeremy Falcon
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i consider myself a bit of an expert in such matters . Western thought re/ such matters is in my opinion of poor quality . i am a devout follower of Eastern thought / PRACTICE (emphasis) . further i have discovered a practice id est a simple method not merely of developing strategies as CBT presumes to do as per my quick reading at Wikipedia a subject i have no knowledge of but as it seems yet more Western theoretical blah blah blah i immediately deem it poor as it derives from the tradition of Freudian "talk (blah blah blah) therapy" who i hear is now discredited . as i was saying a simple and highly effective method i discovered which ELIMINATED (emphasis) in 1y my depression and bipolar also revealed the cause of each . it is merely "just sit" . no need for a lengthy book . this practice is also helpful in discovering bugs in code after a lengthy session . at the end of the day "just sit" and on occasion they will be recognized . in fact my 1st post here several years ago was just this bit of advice . i was surprised by the unpleasant / humorous responses . to summarize : "sit . sit . sit . attention . attention . attention ." what else is there . sounds like Quantum Mechanics to my ear . however maybe Western theoretical blah blah blah has some merit after all as according to Woody Allan "Psychoanalyses is like music lessons, for 5 years you do not notice any progress and suddenly you can play the piano. "
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BernardIE5317 wrote: as i was saying a simple and highly effective method i discovered which ELIMINATED (emphasis) in 1y my depression and bipolar also revealed the cause of each . it is merely "just sit" . no need for a lengthy book . this practice is also helpful in discovering bugs in code after a lengthy session .
I sometimes do this to rest my eyes, and think deeply about whatever comes to mind. Just like you, I do this after having depleted my energy from programming all day. It does help address bugs. What's even more effective, is a night of quality sleep. It never ceases to amaze me that upon waking up in the morning, the solution pops right into my head. I know very little about meditation and related practices, but the evidence speaks for itself. I believe you when you say that it has been a tremendous help.
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for clarification as to my meaning "just sit" means just that . in the usual Eastern such practice the thoughts which arise are not "chased" instead they are merely allowed to come and go on their own . in time they diminish and one discovers amazing attentive powers / pleasures w/o distraction .
modified 22-Dec-23 2:09am.
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Uh, could we have a synopsis, please?
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Synopsis...
Someone created something that they claim is similar to a brain cell.
Only difference from previous ones that did same thing is that this does not require cold to run.
Then it rolls without much explanation into current AI tech.
It should be noted that the referenced study (only one) was published on a Pay to Publish journal.
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also "Our goal is to advance AI technology in the direction of higher-level thinking."
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Wordle 915 3/6*
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Wordle 915 2/6
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One of those rare occasions.
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Wordle 915 3/6
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Wordle 915 4/6
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βThat which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.β
β Christopher Hitchens
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In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity. - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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Wordle 915 3/6*
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Happiness will never come to those who fail to appreciate what they already have. -Anon
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. -Frederick Nietzsche
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Wordle 915 2/6
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Ok, I have had my coffee, so you can all come out now!
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When you're driving on sidewalks, how fast do you go?
My speed record for driving on a sidewalk is 63 mph.
What about you?
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